The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Bacon Workshop

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby poxic » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:20 am UTC

There was a mark/recall type of spell available in vanilla Oblivion, I'm pretty sure. I had a mod that kitted it out into a book of (I think) twelve different locations you could have marked at once. That mod broke after I installed Shivering Isles.

Or maybe it was just the mod... gorrammit, I can't remember now. >.<
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby psion » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:31 am UTC

That'd be a mod. There was no official mark/recall in Oblivion at any point.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby psion » Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:24 am UTC

Skyrim info
Main change I like is how conversations are handled. No more time freezing zoom-in.
Main change I hate is the level scaling and "radiant storytelling" wherein quest objectives are moved to areas where you haven't visited. That screams 'copy paste fetch quest' to me.

It sounds like you won't have control over your main stats anymore, or that they might not even exist. I doubt it could be much worse than Oblivion, so I welcome any change there.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby guale » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:49 am UTC

Well sounds like they're changing a lot, some of the changes I'm receptive towards, some I'm not. I do NOT like them cutting more skills. I remember when Oblivion was coming out everyone was saying before long they'll just have three skills, fighter, mage, and thief and it seems like they're going more towards that. I know for sure I'm gonna wait at least a year before buying it so I know what I'm getting because you really just don't know anymore.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby Magnanimous » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:39 am UTC

Yeah, I'd like more skills... But on the other hand, there's finally gonna be kids! Like, people who aren't adults! (This has always bugged me in Elder Scrolls games...)

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby poxic » Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:43 am UTC

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby EmptySet » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:00 am UTC

Is alchemy gone? If there are 18 skills total, that would be six in each area, and the article mentions that there will be five schools of magic (Destruction, Alteration, Conjuration, Restoration, Illusion), and that the enchanting skill will make a return. Which would leave no room for alchemy, unless it has been shifted to a different specialisation. I guess it could fit under stealth... though I note that there is apparently mining, farming, smithing and cooking, but no mention of alchemy. Hmm.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby Magnanimous » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:17 am UTC


That's awesome. Especially the bit(s) about the pestles.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby Goldstein » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:43 am UTC

Thanks for the link, psion.

I don't really like that all skills have to be in an 'area', and especially that Mysticism was cut. That was a great skill, and enchanting sucks. I do like that it suggests we're returning to open cities, as that feels much better than every village with a population over 30 having its own giant wall. In addition to obviously being more natual, it blurs the distinction between 'in' and 'out' of the town and just feels more adventury. I dare say all that nonsense about people fighting over a sword you drop in the street will be cut, but they're again promising RadiantAI. Was RadiantAI featured in Oblivion? Either they took it out completely and so we're getting something new, or they scaled it well back from the tech demo they showed us and still called it RadiantAI, in which case this is no surprise.

And also, this:
Blog Article wrote:Inheritence: When you kill a shopkeeper, his/her family member will inherit the shop and will be angry about you, but stil give you missions.

That's fucked up, man.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby Menacing Spike » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:06 am UTC

Goldstein wrote:
Blog Article wrote:Inheritence: When you kill a shopkeeper, his/her family member will inherit the shop and will be angry about you, but stil give you missions.

That's fucked up, man.


"But you may have to butter her up a bit before you will get the quest."

Taken literally, this is an amusing image.

"YOU KILLED MY BROTHER! GET OUT, CHUR! Wait, is that bu... hmmm... hmmmmm... so there are rats in my cellar..."

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby Goldstein » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:11 am UTC

Your cellar? Done grieving, are we?

And these two, taken together:
Blog Article wrote:Kids
Blog Article wrote:Duel: You may duel any NPC on the streets western style.

I like The Elder Scrolls and I will buy this game, but it's going to be a thing of nightmares.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby SirBryghtside » Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:18 pm UTC

*cough cough*

I didn't see anything about dueling, though. Some people get the wrong idea altogether...
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby Goldstein » Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:26 pm UTC

It did mention a mage challenging you to a duel. Nothing about you being able to do the same though.

It's rare that I'm excited about an upcoming game as I tend to assume the worst and still end up being disappointed, but I'm very much looking forward to this.

That magazine wrote:Dragons won't be some legendary concept left dangling before players until the end of the game. Dragons are real and regular threats in the game world. They fly into battle at unexpected times. They ravage towns. They wield awesome power. And you'll have to face them repeatedly in single combat.

Great. I love dragons. That all sounds great. But "at unexpected times"? I think they're being very optimistic about their scripted sequences.

Howard wrote:The magical school of mysticism. Isn't that redundant?

Touché. But fireballs and healing spells aren't proper magic, and enchantment and summoning are lame. Levitate, Detect Life, Telekinesis, Invisibility, Demoralise. Those are real spells, mageling.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby MisterCheif » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:40 pm UTC

Goldstein wrote:-snip-
Howard wrote:The magical school of mysticism. Isn't that redundant?

Touché. But fireballs and healing spells aren't proper magic, and enchantment and summoning are lame. Levitate, Detect Life, Telekinesis, Invisibility, Demoralise. Those are real spells, mageling.


I imagine that most of those will be grouped into the others, such as invisibility into illusion, etc.

I'm hoping that snow falls as realistically as they say it does, since we should be seeing quite a lot of it in Skyrim.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby psion » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:28 pm UTC

Goldstein wrote:Was RadiantAI featured in Oblivion? Either they took it out completely and so we're getting something new, or they scaled it well back from the tech demo they showed us and still called it RadiantAI, in which case this is no surprise.

They completely swept Radiant AI under the rug when Oblivion was released. They didn't admit that it didn't work as they had explained, but they didn't say that they took it out either. Radiant AI is probably their marketing phrase now.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby MisterCheif » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:31 pm UTC

psion wrote:
Goldstein wrote:Was RadiantAI featured in Oblivion? Either they took it out completely and so we're getting something new, or they scaled it well back from the tech demo they showed us and still called it RadiantAI, in which case this is no surprise.

They completely swept Radiant AI under the rug when Oblivion was released. They didn't admit that it didn't work as they had explained, but they didn't say that they took it out either. Radiant AI is probably their marketing phrase now.


From browsing the BethSoft forums, it seems to be that the encountered problems of characters going and killing characters for a broom if they were to say, be scheduled to sweep the floor and they didn't have a broom. Because of this, they simplified it a lot in Oblivion.
Hopefully in Skyrim it will be what it was originally intended to be.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby poxic » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:46 pm UTC

NPCs killing each other for brooms? Excellent...
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby Goldstein » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:54 pm UTC

On Conversations: Conversations aren’t done in a zoomed in static shot anymore. Start a conversation with someone and they will act like someone would in real life, looking at you occasionally and walking around a bit and also continuing to kill their neighbour for that broom.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby Vaniver » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:07 pm UTC

Each time you level you get extra health and the option to choose more health, or between magicka or stamina, and each level will bring you perks.
Emphasis mine. Do you think they just mean 'benefits' or perks a la Fallout?

Goldstein wrote:Touché. But fireballs and healing spells aren't proper magic, and enchantment and summoning are lame. Levitate, Detect Life, Telekinesis, Invisibility, Demoralise. Those are real spells, mageling.
So, while Mysticism is cool it really isn't that hard to cut up and put into other places. It's kind of telling that of the 5 effects you mention, only 2 actually are Mysticism. The ones you don't mention- teleportation, dispel, reflect, absorb, soul trap- don't seem that hard to move around (gone, restoration, alteration, alteration, enchant). (Demoralize already moved over to illusion.)
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby Goldstein » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:28 pm UTC

Reading the images SirBryghtside posted, it sounds as though they've got Fallout-style perks. Lots of them.

And yeah, only two of those are mysticism. The list of cool spells in Oblivion is very short.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby EmptySet » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:25 am UTC

Goldstein wrote:I dare say all that nonsense about people fighting over a sword you drop in the street will be cut, but they're again promising RadiantAI. Was RadiantAI featured in Oblivion? Either they took it out completely and so we're getting something new, or they scaled it well back from the tech demo they showed us and still called it RadiantAI, in which case this is no surprise.


Killing people is Radiant AI's solution to everything, so making people fight over stuff you drop seems like one thing it would actually be really good at. Just as long as the guards don't kill everyone involved for breaking the law, then stand there going "By the Nine Divines! There's been a murder!"

Alternately, given the quality of the dialogue in Oblivion, the NPCs might end up standing around going: "It's my sword now." "I saw a sword the other day." "Really? Horrible weapons. I steer well clear of them."

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby MisterCheif » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:03 pm UTC

EmptySet wrote:
Goldstein wrote:I dare say all that nonsense about people fighting over a sword you drop in the street will be cut, but they're again promising RadiantAI. Was RadiantAI featured in Oblivion? Either they took it out completely and so we're getting something new, or they scaled it well back from the tech demo they showed us and still called it RadiantAI, in which case this is no surprise.


Killing people is Radiant AI's solution to everything, so making people fight over stuff you drop seems like one thing it would actually be really good at. Just as long as the guards don't kill everyone involved for breaking the law, then stand there going "By the Nine Divines! There's been a murder!"

Alternately, given the quality of the dialogue in Oblivion, the NPCs might end up standing around going: "It's my sword now." "I saw a sword the other day." "Really? Horrible weapons. I steer well clear of them."


Well, I hope it would have improved in the last 5 years.
I also hope the behavior of guards has changed as well, especially in relation to crime. Hivemind guards can be annoying...

*Guard sees me*
Guard-"That ring on his left middle finger that I've never seen before! It's stolen!"
*resist arrest*
Later, in the wilderness...
Other Guard-"That guy I've never seen before killed Fred! Get him!"
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby Goldstein » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:12 pm UTC

News travels fast in a world with fast travel.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby emceng » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:40 pm UTC

Goldstein wrote:On Conversations: Conversations aren’t done in a zoomed in static shot anymore. Start a conversation with someone and they will act like someone would in real life, looking at you occasionally and walking around a bit and also continuing to kill their neighbour for that broom.


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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby bisurge » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:40 am UTC

I'm glad they took out the Major and Minor skill system. No more benefiting from the level scaling system by majoring in skills you don't use.
But one thing I don't like is dual-wielding. Honestly, Morrowind and Oblivion were better off without it. Oblivion's daggers were already too overpowered endgame because you could take advantage of a 1 second soul trap and another strong enchantment. You just had to spam the dagger, kill the person, and recharge the dagger, with the enchant doing most of the damage. Now, you can use this system to DUAL-WIELD! >_>
Seriously, Morrowind has to be the most balanced Elder Scrolls game in my eyes. It was also my favorite because Oblivion focused too much on dungeons instead of overland exploring. Seriously, I'd rather fight beasties by the street while traveling between towns than fighting nothing but a few weak bandits and depending on caves for the real challenge; caves you can mostly avoid anyway.
But, anyway, it seems like Skyrim is going to be more like Oblivion in the way of Combat and Perks and whatnot. Morrowind's combat system was extremely simple, I must admit, but still, I feel like I like it better simply because it was a better designed game.
But I'm just glad about Skyrim's skill system.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby emceng » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:01 pm UTC

I really liked certain things they did in Oblivion. Lockpicking was cool, and the apprentice/journeyman/master thing for skills was a nice addition. I still didn't play it that much, despite having 2 copies. On PC I couldn't do lockpicking worth anything, and somehow the interface made it really difficult to drop items. On 360 I just got bored with getting my ass kicked in combat, since the first 3-4 levels I just fucked around in town and did thieve's guild quests.

One idea that I think might be neat would be something from WoW. Looted items that start quests. Not important stuff, but if you find a diary or something in a cave, you could return it to the widow - instead of meeting the widowwife first and having her send you looking for her corpsehusband.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby SirBryghtside » Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:24 pm UTC

Goldstein wrote:It did mention a mage challenging you to a duel. Nothing about you being able to do the same though.

Sounds like part of a quest, to be honest, in Skyrim's arena.
Goldstein wrote:Reading the images SirBryghtside posted, it sounds as though they've got Fallout-style perks. Lots of them.

Those aren't all the images from the GI article, by the way. But there has been a BTS video just come out that seems to confirm a couple of things - namely horses, horkers*, alchemy has to be done on a table, and that there's a new trailer for Skyrim coming soon :D

See if you can spot anything else!

*really happy about this one
Last edited by SirBryghtside on Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:29 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby Dason » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:46 pm UTC

emceng wrote: On PC I couldn't do lockpicking worth anything...

I'm pretty good at it now but I do think they could have made a much better system. I like the idea and everything but using the mouse (while interesting in theory) just wasn't executed as well as it could have been.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby EmptySet » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:11 am UTC

emceng wrote:On PC I couldn't do lockpicking worth anything...


Really? I didn't like Oblivion lockpicking because I found it far too easy - I can consistently pick five-pin locks in one try, even when my character allegedly has a skill of 5. That said, it might work better if time didn't stop while you were doing it, since higher skill does make the process a bit faster.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby Spambot5546 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:35 am UTC

There was a mod that changed the interface so you couldn't see the tumblers, you just had to go by sound. I felt like that was a lot better, since it added an element of realism AND made it more challenging.

That said, the skeleton key still made lockpicking a completely unnecessary skill.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:31 pm UTC

Well, yeah. And Azura's Star made enchantment rediculously easy, both in initial creation and in recharging. Daedric Artifacts should be game breakers.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby Menacing Spike » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:59 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Well, yeah. And Azura's Star made enchantment rediculously easy, both in initial creation and in recharging. Daedric Artifacts should be game breakers.


Eh, it was better than grinding for grand soulstones...

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby mosc » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:00 am UTC

In Morrowind: Tribunal they had a restocking supply of grand soulgems at a merchant. So if you had the expansion, azura's star was only a MINOR money saver anyway. It's main powergaming purpose was fitting almalexia's soul (which wouldn't fit well in a grand).
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby EmptySet » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:29 am UTC

Spambot5546 wrote:There was a mod that changed the interface so you couldn't see the tumblers, you just had to go by sound. I felt like that was a lot better, since it added an element of realism AND made it more challenging.


It would be better, but I'm still not sure it would solve the problem, since I normally went by sound anyway. There was one particular noise which always indicated a really consistent, easy slide... though one of the mods I'm currently using makes all the sounds the same, which also makes things marginally more difficult.

Also, yeah, the Skeleton Key is ridiculous, since it completely eliminates any need for the skill at no cost. With Azura's Star you still had to be able to actually make the enchantment, or pay someone a substantial amount to do so. Enchantment also has a minor benefit in that it reduces the charges used by on-use items, which can still be relevant on some of the unique items that chug over a thousand points a use. Also, in Morrowind you could bypass lockpicking and/or alteration with scrolls of Ondusi's Unhinging or Ekash's Locksplitter, but they were expensive and somewhat rare, so it took a bit of effort and you couldn't sling them around all over the place.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby emceng » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:41 pm UTC

I found the easiest thing in Morrowind was to just buy a spell for unlocking things. Sure at low levels you didn't have the mana, but if you spellcast much it wouldn't take long to be able to do at least cast one for a level 75.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby SirBryghtside » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:06 pm UTC

EmptySet wrote:
Spambot5546 wrote:There was a mod that changed the interface so you couldn't see the tumblers, you just had to go by sound. I felt like that was a lot better, since it added an element of realism AND made it more challenging.


It would be better, but I'm still not sure it would solve the problem, since I normally went by sound anyway. There was one particular noise which always indicated a really consistent, easy slide... though one of the mods I'm currently using makes all the sounds the same, which also makes things marginally more difficult.

Also, yeah, the Skeleton Key is ridiculous, since it completely eliminates any need for the skill at no cost. With Azura's Star you still had to be able to actually make the enchantment, or pay someone a substantial amount to do so. Enchantment also has a minor benefit in that it reduces the charges used by on-use items, which can still be relevant on some of the unique items that chug over a thousand points a use. Also, in Morrowind you could bypass lockpicking and/or alteration with scrolls of Ondusi's Unhinging or Ekash's Locksplitter, but they were expensive and somewhat rare, so it took a bit of effort and you couldn't sling them around all over the place.

You did also get a skeleton key in Morrowind, but it only had 50 uses, and was the final reward for both the fighters' guild and the thieves' guild.

And actually, the Skeleton Key is only obtainable at level 10, and that's if you found the shrine. So *shrug*
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby EmptySet » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:56 am UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:You did also get a skeleton key in Morrowind, but it only had 50 uses, and was the final reward for both the fighters' guild and the thieves' guild.

And actually, the Skeleton Key is only obtainable at level 10, and that's if you found the shrine. So *shrug*


The one in Morrowind was just a very high quality lockpick, though, if I recall correctly. It didn't let you automatically open everything.

I actually thought the Oblivion Skeleton Key was available a bit earlier than that - obviously it was never really a priority for me since I can open everything anyway. I suppose it's not quite so bad considering you have to be at level ten, but still... can you imagine if, at level ten, you finished a quest and had your Blade skill permanently set to 100? Because that's basically what the Skeleton Key does to Security.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby Amnesiasoft » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:35 am UTC

I think it would perhaps work out nicely the way it is if lockpicking didn't freeze the world around you.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby nowfocus » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:38 am UTC

Not sure if this was posted, but some key details revealed
Key points:
- no classes
- "Fallout 3" style leveling system, where only mobs in key areas level with you, and perks
- dual wielding
and a few others.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim

Postby psion » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:21 am UTC

That sounds like there's going to be a button for each hand that you'll either fervidly mash or 1-2-punch things with (fire vulnerability and fireball). Supposedly there's going to be 2handed weapons, but I can't imagine them being useful.


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