Dark Souls 2

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Mishrak
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Thu May 08, 2014 2:35 pm UTC

I have no lack of kind words for people who finish the game but have valid complaints. It's those people who play the game for 2 hours, declare it bad, compare it to Skyrim or Witcher and never really give it a fair shot that I have little patience for. 8-)

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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby SecondTalon » Thu May 08, 2014 3:08 pm UTC

Koa wrote:Anyway, I just finished this title today, which is a first for me in this series. I could never quite stand the simple, slow, and deliberate nature of the combat. Once you initiate an action there's nothing you can do until the action completes, which can be a couple seconds. So, knowing that you or the enemy will die well before it happens is fairly common. "Oh, that hit didn't connect, I guess I'm dead then. I'm going to be stunned for too long from my missed swing, and that guy is going to swing at me which is going to stun me and then that other guy will finish me off." --YOU DIED-- "Yes... yes I'm aware."

Why isn't there additional input during these actions that I can perform? For instance, there was one time when I had to roll to avoid an attack, and I knew that the roll was going to put me just a wee slight bit too far off the edge of a cliff. I performed the roll because I would have died anyway, but while the roll was executing I was attempting to move in the opposite direction to maybe slow my roll. But no, you have no control over any action once it is initiated, so I finished my roll and ever so gently slid to my death.

As Gel said, but I'll slightly disagree on the superhero chosen, The Souls series is, in my experience, Midnighter: The Game. But the meaning remains the same - meaning that before you approach an enemy, you should already have fought him in your mind and are now just going through the button presses to get to the end goal of victory. Which is why a new enemy is always terrifying - you have no idea what it's capable of doing and cannot build your attack around that knowledge.

I mean, I'm honestly somewhat afraid of enemies I take down quickly before they do anything to me first, as now I *really* assume they have a one-shot kill attack, since they went down so fast.

Mishrak wrote:
Spoiler:
Dark Souls 2 is surprisingly linear with its fights, especially bosses and while it did many things well, the genuine terror of fighting Nito or Ornstein and Smough is missing.


Spoiler:
Of course, it's useful to keep in mind that the only reason those fights were terrifying were Nito's minions and that there were TWO in the Ornstein and Smough fight. Nito alone is not that big of a deal. Ornstein alone is just Penetrator from Demon's Souls and Penetrator was by far the easiest boss in the game. A nice little break right before shit got real. And Smough? The giants before Smough are harder than Smough would be alone. But the two together? A peanut-butter and jelly sandwich of pain.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby philsov » Thu May 08, 2014 9:46 pm UTC

I mean, I'm honestly somewhat afraid of enemies I take down quickly before they do anything to me first, as now I *really* assume they have a one-shot kill attack, since they went down so fast.


They just want hugs :D

I hear ya Koa on the action aspect; actions are generally "queued" in, so there isn't much room for reactions. This is noticeably true on many swordy mobs, who have variable swing combos of like 2-4 hits. Think you're free to attack after #3? Newp! Stagger spam has saved my bacon more than once.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Gelsamel » Fri May 09, 2014 1:52 am UTC

The biggest problem I have with DS and DS2 combat is buffering... they do it in a really horrible way. It's not that buffering itself is bad, it's that they use the absolute worst implementation of it that we've always known to avoid in every game ever.

In fighter games if you do a movie, during the action you can buffer another move... the move you buffer is the latest input. So if you do Attack A and during attack A you buffer attack B, but then you see that you didn't hitconfirm... so you need to defend, you can quickly queue block or jump back before Attack A's recovery animation is finished and you'll go straight into that. In Dark Souls you buffer the first move you do during the animation. So if you do Attack A and then Attack B then you will do Attack B no matter what, even if the situation changes in a way that unfavourable to that action. You can spam block and dodge as much as you want... too late, you're doing attack B, and only once attack B starts can you buffer a new move... and it will be only the first new move you do while doing attack B.

This is why so many people complained about "Stored Attacks" or "Stored Dodges", you know they're coming but you can't do anything about it because DS's buffer system is horrible.

You could make an argument that this plays into the whole planning/turn-based like gameplay but it's still complete bullshit, it is so unbelievably frustrating for your character to not do what you know you're telling it to do because they use a fucked up input confirmation scheme that no other game since the first fighter games uses.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby emceng » Fri May 09, 2014 2:58 pm UTC

Gelsamel wrote:This is why so many people complained about "Stored Attacks" or "Stored Dodges", you know they're coming but you can't do anything about it because DS's buffer system is horrible.

You could make an argument that this plays into the whole planning/turn-based like gameplay but it's still complete bullshit, it is so unbelievably frustrating for your character to not do what you know you're telling it to do because they use a fucked up input confirmation scheme that no other game since the first fighter games uses.


But...that's how they planned to do combat? Saying it's fucked up because you don't like the design is foolish. It would be like complaining that puppet cities in Civ 5 aren't building what you want. I'm not saying I really like their buffer system, but it isn't terrible. It just means you have to plan your next move instead of button mashing whatever you want at that second.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Fri May 09, 2014 3:19 pm UTC

I really do think it was intentionally designed to be a polar opposite system to the typical mash A to win games that are so popular. Don't forget, this system goes back to 2009 with Demons Souls. Even Armored Core had calculated inputs. While it feels clunky at first, the simplistic design is actually quite fluid once you get used to it. If you try to button mash to win, you will pay for it every time. But very little has actually changed mechanically about the basics of the combat system from 2009.

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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby SecondTalon » Fri May 09, 2014 3:43 pm UTC

I never played King's Field, so it might go back to that.

At any rate, while I do understand the complaints about not being able to alter an action in the queue, it is a deliberate design choice.

Now, whether or not it was a good design choice is entirely debatable. I seem to recall reading about Demon's Souls before I got it and the choices they were making to deliberately punish players for trying to do too much too quickly, to force the player to carefully think about every button press as, once hit, you were committing to the act.

At any rate, after the advice above...

Spoiler:
I'm assuming that Harvest Valley doesn't have a boss, as I can't seem to locate one. It's also weird in that all of the other covenant areas I've found so far have bonfires with zero to maybe one enemy between point A and B. Meanwhile, the Heirs to the Sun or whatever Solaire's covenant is calling itself these days seems to have two enemies between the bonfire and it, and a long ass-run to boot. Maybe there's another bonfire I didn't find, and a boss hiding in that fucking poison mist.. but fuck the mist.

I also, if I'm reading the signs right, am supposed to get the giant to smash open a wall for me, but I can't seem to do it. Dude fires at me, I dodge, it hits a wall.. nothing happens. I can't make the giant throw a punch either, so.. aim's off, I guess? Or maybe I need a two-handed hammer or something.

Earthen Peak is weird for the reasons highlighted in the video posted above - you climb a windmill, and then... ride an elevator..up?

The more I play this game, the more I assume it's going to be revealed to be a dream or hallucination of a dying hollow.

Not sure what I need to open up the door in the pit. If I can just survive the first drop, I can jump down to the other passage, but... even the cat ring doesn't lessen the damage enough. Anyone know if the drop damage is percentage based and effected by encumbrance like in Dark Souls, or is it raw damage per distance maybe modified by equipment now?
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Fri May 09, 2014 3:46 pm UTC

It doesn't go back that far, sadly. I've played about half of Kings Field IV before I got stuck. Amazing game. Simply amazing. 10/10 Atmosphere. 10/10 Music. 8/10 Ambiguous souls-esque storyline. 10/10 world design. 1/10 combat engine. It's Dark Souls with no engine behind it. A first person menu-based Dark Souls with really bad combat and turning. If you can get past it, the game is incredible, but it's hard to get past it.

Spoiler:
Harvest Valley has no boss, correct. It's a pathway to Earthen Peak. However, explore it carefully. There are some useful items to be found.



re: Cat ring
Spoiler:
Fall damage is definitely influenced by encumbrance, but it no longer scales with your hp. I actually managed to jump down that hole without the cat ring, but I had around 1500 hp i think (22 VIG) and I just BARELY survived with all of my health and naked. Same setup with gear on caused me to die. However, with the Cat ring, you should be able to get down. In regards to the locked door there, it's totally optional, and there's another way to get down there without the Cat ring. You also probably don't have the key.

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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby philsov » Fri May 09, 2014 4:28 pm UTC

Random advice/response towards ST:

Spoiler:
You need either a dark orb or a punch to make that bad guy crash open that shanty door for you. It takes a fair amount of patience; I managed to roll to avoid a punch to get that out of them.

You mean the door in the pit of Majula? It needs a key from an area you haven't been to yet.

but yes, fall damage is a function of % health and equipment weight; going around naked and human is the best way to survive falls. What I don't know is if the cat ring functions similar to Fall Control; the lethal distance may be absolute, but n-1 lethal distance with cat ring may leave you less scathed. Also -- good when you're not at 100% HP because of death.


Mild hint for key for majula pit door:

Spoiler:
Obscure location in the green area (like, neon freakin' green. can't miss it). The only way you'll probably find it is by looking for message locations and realizing there's even a spot there.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Gelsamel » Sat May 10, 2014 12:03 am UTC

Mishrak wrote:I really do think it was intentionally designed to be a polar opposite system to the typical mash A to win games that are so popular. Don't forget, this system goes back to 2009 with Demons Souls. Even Armored Core had calculated inputs. While it feels clunky at first, the simplistic design is actually quite fluid once you get used to it. If you try to button mash to win, you will pay for it every time. But very little has actually changed mechanically about the basics of the combat system from 2009.


Calling 'buffering last input' 'mash A to win' is a bit ridiculous. Look at any fighting game, it's planned as hell, it just also happens to be twitch as hell, but any buttom masher will get destroyed by someone who knows what to do.

It wouldn't be as bad if Dark Souls had quicker attacks, but some attacks take seconds upon seconds to execute and you're left with no control over your character if you pressed ANY button even if it was 2 seconds ago. There are also many cases that encourage early buffering (like ripostes after counters on some attack animations that are impossible to riposte without a buffered attack) that will completely screw you if you get the timing wrong (partial parry or fail parry? Now you're also going to do an attack when you're vulnerable and you're almost certainly dead).

This isn't something only I'm complaining about. The best speedrunners and PvPers I've seen complaining about 'stored' attacks/rolls and hoping it'd be fixed. It doesn't really add anything to the game. I didn't learn anything from any death I got due to buffered moves, it was just the game telling me to fuck off and requiring I redo stuff I already know how to do because the mapping from my physical inputs to game actions is bad. Same reason why Bed of Chaos was so hated, because each failed attempt (assuming you didn't cheese with arrows) taught you nothing. You know exactly what to do, you just can't do it because the game hates you and the controls are a bit finnicky for jumping (and the stored rolls, ofc).


Edit: Hell, if you look at the people talking about it online, almost everyone thinks it is a glitch or bug, and that it isn't intended. Thats how offputting it feels. It feels like the game just fucked up.
"Give up here?"
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"Do you think games are silly little things?"
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Koa » Sat May 10, 2014 2:39 am UTC

I don't notice anything like that with the buffer system. I can attack, buffer a roll, and then change the buffered roll into a second attack. Or parry, buffer a riposte, and then change the riposte to a roll before the parry finishes. I can even attack, buffer a roll, change the buffered roll to an attack, and change the buffered attack again to a parry, and the outcome is the proper attack then parry. I'm not getting locked into the first buffered input. It seems like stored rolls is a weird bug where you can buffer a roll that doesn't fire for some reason, and then it gets stored only to misfire later on. I never experienced that though so maybe I'm missing something. I get the impression that they fixed that in DS2.

The problem I have with the series would be more about animation canceling, or the sheer simplicity of the already limited amount of actions, but that's me. The frame window for canceling an attack into a roll is tiny, and since rolls are often about exploiting key invincibility frames you'll never want to do it outside of PvP anyway.

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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby emceng » Sat May 10, 2014 4:49 pm UTC

Hooray - finally tracked down where I freaking needed to go. Had forgotten about a fog door that I skipped because I didn't feel like fighting a boss that evening, then didn't get back to because I got super busy.

Only crappy part is I doubt I'll have a chance to fight that boss today or tomorrow.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Spambot5546 » Sun May 11, 2014 2:51 pm UTC

Man, who was in charge of the PC port, and how fired are they? There's no way it's okay to make a game for PC where all of the instructions show XBox buttons. Press right stick while running to dash? I don't fucking have one!

Edit: also, have any of you figured out backstab? I can't seem to get it to work.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby philsov » Mon May 12, 2014 1:55 pm UTC

Spambot5546 wrote:Man, who was in charge of the PC port, and how fired are they? There's no way it's okay to make a game for PC where all of the instructions show XBox buttons. Press right stick while running to dash? I don't fucking have one!

Edit: also, have any of you figured out backstab? I can't seem to get it to work.


Not fired at all, I suspect. DS1's PC port did the exact same thing, much to similar chagrin. Either way, it's (mostly?) designed for gameplay using a gamepad, and... what gamepad doesn't have a right stick?

Use a standard (non-strong) swing while behind something. It's easier if you lock onto them so you can pivot. Really big mobs can't be backstabbed.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Spambot5546 » Mon May 12, 2014 3:06 pm UTC

Huh. I guess I just need to work at it. I've been having the same problem with riposte (but not parry), so I guess I just need to work on timing. Or stop caring about it, my guy is a sorcerer he should be sorcering things.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Mon May 12, 2014 3:09 pm UTC

One common mistake is to have your shield up while trying to backstab. You won't be able to do it.

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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby SecondTalon » Mon May 12, 2014 3:21 pm UTC

Question Re: That Firey Bullshit Place

Spoiler:
After slamming my head against the Smelter Demon repeatedly, I fucked off and did the rest of the place and killed some giant demon Iron King thing and .. lit another primeveal bonfire.

The fuck is Smelter guarding anyway? I found the dull ember through not giving a fuck anymore, so McDuffBeer is actually useful now, but even with summoning two humans or a human and the NPC, the best I've been able to do is get Smelter to half.

HALF.

At any rate, I'm now in the Castle. Stupid room of poison masks. The spider boss fight was neat, though. Firey Longsword of Fuck Your Yankee Bluejeans worked pretty well, as did the Magic Mace of Fuck Your Couch.

...yes, I give all the weapons I use a lot obscene names. My primary Falchion is a Falchion of Fuck Your Mother. I was using a Sea Bow of I Want To Tell You To Fuck Off But You're All The Way Over There And I'm Tired, but after waking up Mr. Sleepy Magic Man In Explodey Room, I traded out for a Dragonslayer Bow and that seems nifty. I think I'm going to call that one the Dragonslayer Bow of Come Closer, I Want To Hit You With My Sword. You Fucker.



Still need to kill Smelter and the Rat Vanguard, and figure out a way in to that locked door in the pit. Took me forever to even figure out that Vanguard was a boss. I wonder if the rats ever stop...


Not spoilery question - do spawns eventually stop? Areas I've run through over and over and over again suddenly cease to be populated by creatures.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Mon May 12, 2014 3:30 pm UTC

Yes they do eventually stop. A bonfire ascetic will give you fresh respawns of them but of course at the NG+(+++++) level.

Spoiler:
I did the exact same thing. Actually, I kinda forgot about the Smelter Demon fog gate entirely. But he guards a bonfire that puts you closer to the Iron King that doesn't force you to go through the Belfry pvp area. Not a big deal if you're offline but if you're online it's probably more of an issue.

There's another bonfire that's right before the Iron King too. I missed all of these bonfires except the Belfry one and so ran the gauntlet at least 20 times before I finally was able to kill the Iron King on my first run.

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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby SecondTalon » Mon May 12, 2014 3:34 pm UTC

So what you're telling me is...

Spoiler:
Smelter is basically just to say "I've got the stones and skill to kill this fuckface" and is otherwise useless.


I say that as, in all my times being summoned to try and kill him, we succeeded once. In.. seriously, 10+ attempts. Once.

Perhaps I suck more than I thought. I know I'm terrible, but g'damn.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Mon May 12, 2014 3:39 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I'm sure his soul makes something useful, but essentially yeah. If you've already gotten the late bonfire in the Keep or if you've already killed the Iron King, there's no reason to kill the Smelter. Entirely skippable. However, there's an interesting thing you find if you return to the smelter room after you've killed him. I didn't have that much trouble, but it was one of the more well designed bosses in DkS 2 for an experienced player to have a hard time with.

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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby philsov » Mon May 12, 2014 4:04 pm UTC

Re: Smelter Demon

Spoiler:
Yeah, he's a bit trickier. You can't just shield-tank him like a lot of the other swordy bosses, because, you know, FIRE sword. So things like Flame defense ring are handy, and good rolling. I hit respawn cap on the guy while attemping him. Finally managed it by going melee-heavy and then unloading spells in the fire sword phase. Getting him to jump on you and then do the radial explosion (negated by running away) and pewpewing does wonders.

The benefits to killing him: bonfire, melee-friendly ring if you visit the room a second time, and you can buy his armor in majula. It's really a badass set, second only to Havel's iirc.


I prefer Sea Bow over Dragonslayer; Dragonslayer has poop for range and higher stamina usage; 2 shots is my whole bar. While the Sea Bow is slightly less damage, the sniping range and 3 shots per stam bar are marvelous.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby SecondTalon » Mon May 12, 2014 5:12 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Shield tank? Hah! If I'm blocking, it's because everything's gone to hell and I have nowhere to roll.

The main issue I'm having with him is that 75% of the time, I roll through his sword swipes with no problem at all... then suddenly he hits me, stunlocks me and does the overhead swing before I recover, killing me.

*sad trombone*

That, or his AoE hits me. I've yet to figure out his tell for that which, given the number of times he's killed me with it, makes me suspect he doesn't have one.


At any rate, I've not yet experimented with the Dragonslayer Bow too much, so I don't know if I'll like it better or not.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Gelsamel » Mon May 12, 2014 10:52 pm UTC

There is no tell for the AoE, just assume he'll do it every time he does the... jump/stab thing? I forget, was ages ago. 'Be cautious' and 'Don't be greedy' are the essense of Dark Souls.
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"Do you think games are silly little things?"
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Mon May 12, 2014 11:04 pm UTC

Spoiler:
The tell with the AoE is that he leaves his sword in the ground. Generally though, if you're still in range while his sword is in the ground, it's too late.

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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby emceng » Tue May 13, 2014 3:07 pm UTC

Smelter advice:

Spoiler:
Don't summon the NPC. It increases the Smelter's hp more than she is worth.


Also progressed more:
Spoiler:
After finally finding what I'd missed(scorpion caster lady) fog door, have been running through this next area. Also, holy crap, pyromancy can be powerful. Dropped the giant plague rat with two casts of fire storm, and similarly blasted the priest and his congregation. Ok, might also be because I think I was supposed to be in this area many levels ago.


I also haven't leveled up in quite a while. Hit 81, and have been dumping souls into buying items. Starting to wonder about weapon upgrades. So might have to hit the wiki. part of me doesn't want things to be spoiled, but knowing to save my upgrade materials for something better would be nice.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby SecondTalon » Tue May 13, 2014 3:29 pm UTC

You're similar to me then, in soul level. I'm SL....shit.. somewhere between 77 and 83.
Spoiler:
I just found the giant rat, though I'm already well past the Congregation and the boss after that. The giant rat fucked me up....but I only faced him once. I was hoping to snipe his minions to death before he engaged..no such luck.


That said, while I am farther along than you, I've also not leveled up much lately. Been too busy upgrading equipment. Got a +10 Falchion now. Working on two items I picked up - Fire Longsword and Magic Mace - and made a Scimitar lightning, so I've got the major elements covered.

Upgrade musing
Spoiler:
I was thinking that Dark was a renamed Occult, but as there's not a Holy or Blessed or whatever... I have no idea what Dark is. Nor Mundane. Reading above, apparently it's OP with the right build? Bleed and Poison seem self explanatory but, as I primarily use the Falchion, I don't need to add bleed to anything. At least, no weapon...maybe a shield.


Re:Pyromancy
Spoiler:
The only one I've found so far that seems worthwhile is Warmth, but that might be because I found the flame later than I should have, and I'm not sure how leveled it *should* be. I also chose to go with an.. alternate model, which may have been a mistake as I'm not sure what it scales by.


...man, and a spoiler for my spoiler... regarding alternative Pyromancy

Spoiler:
Regarding the Dark Flame, if I'm reading it correctly it gets stronger the more dead I am, right? So it's weakest when I'm alive, and strongest when I'm at 50% health (with the assumption that the Cling Ring doesn't undo it, of course. Or whatever the Cling Ring is being called now - the one that increases your hitpoints in hollow form.)
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby emceng » Tue May 13, 2014 3:42 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
...man, and a spoiler for my spoiler... regarding alternative Pyromancy

Spoiler:
Regarding the Dark Flame, if I'm reading it correctly it gets stronger the more dead I am, right? So it's weakest when I'm alive, and strongest when I'm at 50% health (with the assumption that the Cling Ring doesn't undo it, of course. Or whatever the Cling Ring is being called now - the one that increases your hitpoints in hollow form.)


That's what I assumed too. I hadn't used pyromancy much, but upgraded that to +7. Like I said, with that combo, dropped two bosses quickly.

As for upgrades:
Spoiler:
Pretty much doing an INT spellcasting build, which is kind of my standard build. Using a magic falchion I found - it was that or an enchanted mace. Still don't have a stone to magic up another weapon. Planning on doing a magic uchigatana, since that was the best one in previous games, but it also sounds like upgrades are different this time around.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby philsov » Tue May 13, 2014 4:06 pm UTC

Dark is its own element, like "magic" or "lightning" or "fire". Some mobs are weak to it, some are stronger.

Its bonus scales similar to Fire; a healthy mix of Int and Faith will do it right. The "dark" spells, aka Hexes, need a combination of Int and Faith to use; counter this to pyromancy which needs neither stat, but scales with both. Hexes need one of either chime or staff to cast, spell pending. Some lategame dark spells consume Souls on cast, but they're very strong. (I found a caster weapon which counts as both a staff and a chime, and has very good scaling on dark; it's perfect :D)

So as far as caster-y upgrades go:

- int heavy -> magic
- faith heavy -> lightning
- mix -> fire or dark, whatever

Each of the 4 elements has at least one weapon boost which gives a flat bonus of said element and a % boost of said element. So if you're using a dark longsword (e.g.) cast dark weapon on it for better synergy.

As for mundane, it works like this: Scales off your lowest stat. +6 per point if it's <20, +3 per point. If you're playing normally and neglecting any of str, dex, int, and faith then mundane is less than ideal for you.
Last edited by philsov on Tue May 13, 2014 4:09 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Tue May 13, 2014 4:07 pm UTC

Upgrade materials are pretty plentiful later on, unless you want to just upgrade /everything/.

Spoiler:
Some of the merchants will eventually sell infinite amounts of Large Titanite shards. I forget if they do the same with Chunks. As for the Infusion stuff, there is a merchant who will sell 3 of every one of them after the right conditions have been met. I think it's 3 or 4 primal bonfires being lit.

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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby SecondTalon » Tue May 13, 2014 5:29 pm UTC

philsov wrote:As for mundane, it works like this: Scales off your lowest stat. +6 per point if it's <20, +3 per point. If you're playing normally and neglecting any of str, dex, int, and faith then mundane is less than ideal for you.

So, both my Faith and Int are 5. Because screw spellcasting.

So Mundane would suck, is what I'm hearing.

It sounds like Mundane would be best for someone who is literally putting all their stats equal, and leveling them up such that the biggest gap between them is 1. So you kinda suck all around.


By the by, claws are pretty fucking vicious.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Tue May 13, 2014 5:34 pm UTC

Correct about Mundane. You get every attribute to at least 20. I've never done it, but it could be interesting. You could use most lower tier Hexes, Miracles and Sorceries and those that you couldn't, you could farm those incenses and reduce the pre-reqs.

Do the +int/faith rings count towards Mundane? That would be another way to gain access to spells.

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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby philsov » Tue May 13, 2014 5:53 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:As mundane you're kinda badass all around.


Indeed. It's a very fun playstyle, but that's subjective. My mundane sea bow does more damage than my first character's Blackbow (S scaling in dex, with character 50/50 dex/faith), and I've got a fast weapon with decent damage per swing, enchanted with a weapon buff and have an HP regen miracle ticking on me. It's quite effective, but you have to utilize all of your bags of tricks. (I also did a "red mage" run in dark souls 1 with an even split on stats and the great sword of artois.)

The burst output is lacking a bit; the hardest boss for me on my mundane run has been the Belfry Gargoyles.

I grabbed the ember and mundane stones with ~15's in all stats, and hit 20 by about the Shrine of Amana.

I'm pretty sure the +int/faith equipment counts towards Mundane. I use the Black Hood with its +2 int/faith (great for unlocking a few extra spells) and those stats pop up in the character window.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby emceng » Tue May 13, 2014 6:36 pm UTC

By all stats, do you mean scaling stats? So you only need int.fth/str/dex to be even?

Forgot one other thing - PvP needs some fixes, especially the rat stuff. I've been summoned three times due to that covenant. Two out of the three times, I was ambushed as soon as I was summoned - once the guy threw a fireball of some sort that one shotted me before I took a single step. Last night, I was backstabbed, again, before I took a single step. They need to vary the spawn location, because that is idiotic.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby philsov » Tue May 13, 2014 7:05 pm UTC

No, mundane requires all stats. But vig/vit/end/agi are going to be staples on most characters (imo), while dex falling to the wayside on a str-heavy character, or completely neglecting either int or faith is common.

~

I don't think either PvP covenant is good, imo. The rat stuff involves YOU getting summoned into the opponents world where they have the advantage AND neutral mobs attack you. Bell Keepers result in multiple mobs and often 2 people summoned in to kill you. Neither one is remotely in the arena of fair, but I guess that's the point.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby emceng » Tue May 13, 2014 7:23 pm UTC

I don't mind unfair or challenging, but I do think it's bullshit that they're attacking me and I have no chance to defend myself.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Ryom » Tue May 13, 2014 9:35 pm UTC

Mishrak wrote:
Spoiler:
I'm sure his soul makes something useful, but essentially yeah. If you've already gotten the late bonfire in the Keep or if you've already killed the Iron King, there's no reason to kill the Smelter. Entirely skippable. However, there's an interesting thing you find if you return to the smelter room after you've killed him. I didn't have that much trouble, but it was one of the more well designed bosses in DkS 2 for an experienced player to have a hard time with.


Spoiler:
I ran back out of the room, jumped over the gap and he fell into the lava and died.

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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Gelsamel » Tue May 13, 2014 10:36 pm UTC

Mundane is great but it only really shines on fast low damage weapons with no scaling. Almost any other weapon with high damage or good scaling will lose damage on mundane, even with 20/30 in all stats. This is why everyone uses it on Santiers Spear (Fast, no scaling, low damage), Avelyn (fast, no scaling, low damage) and daggers (fast, low scaling, low damage).

On any other weapon it absolutely kills your damage and scaling. Your 300 damage normal weapon will go down to like 50 or some shit like that. Better to have your 20 damage weapon go down to ~5 and then gain the exact same mundane bonus on top, than lose more than you gain.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby emceng » Wed May 14, 2014 5:57 pm UTC

Found what I suspect is the last primieval last night. Wow, frustrating fight. Considered using the wiki, but restrained myself. Will try it again tonight, may be new strategies. Either way, a little sad/grumpy.

Spoiler:
Got two new sweet spells - I think soul barrage and...something else. Except neither will work very well in this spider fight.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby SecondTalon » Wed May 14, 2014 11:37 pm UTC

I found friends useful in that fight.

Spoiler:
Also fire. Lots of fire. Set the fucker on fire. Let your inner Beavis loose. Fire. Fire fire fire FIRE.
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Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Spambot5546 » Thu May 15, 2014 5:01 am UTC

Spambot5546 wrote:Edit: also, have any of you figured out backstab? I can't seem to get it to work.

So I think I figured out what I was doing wrong here. My guy was a lefty, and near as I can tell you can only backstab with your right handed weapon. I made a swordsman and in dual wielding have tried to backstab with each sword as well as the power stanced dual swing, but it only works with the righty. Probably works the same way with riposte, I'm not sure. I've managed to parry with my rapier, but I keep forgetting to attack with it and not the other weapon every time I do. Attacking with the lefty definitely isn't doing it.

If true it adds an element of frustration because, being in power stance all the time, I can only parry with the rapier if it's in my right hand. This will mean that I'm forced to riposte with the weaker weapon.
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