Dark Souls 2

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

Moderators: SecondTalon, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
philsov
Not a fan of Diane Kruger
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:58 pm UTC
Location: Texas

Dark Souls 2

Postby philsov » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:39 pm UTC

Anyone else playing this gem yet? I picked it up on Tuesday and got a hefty session under the belt.

So far, it's very much living up the Souls name by providing a memorable experience, which is to say there's tons of death found in hidden nooks. I started as a swordsman (really enjoyed Wanderer last name), but grabbed a shield and bow ASAP. I still haven't found much in the way of starter magic vendors, so if your build will be hybrid-y in any way I suggest starting as said mage and then building physical rather than the opposite.

Most difficult boss to date has been the Rune Guardians.

Spoiler:
3 of them! It's like gargoyles except worse. Kill one, then you have a small window to work on one, then they tag team you into oblivion!


So far, I've been more impressed with the original Dark Souls; this one seems to have less open world options and fewer boss variety. But it's still a great game in its own right.

Also I've died a few times to muscle memory :3. Jump is its own button now.
The time and seasons go on, but all the rhymes and reasons are wrong
I know I'll discover after its all said and done I should've been a nun.

Spambot5546
Posts: 1466
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:34 pm UTC

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Spambot5546 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:17 pm UTC

My impression thus far was "GODDAMMIT, WHY ISN'T THIS ON PS4!? I BOUGHT ONE SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE MY PS3 CRAPPED OUT AND THERE'S NO GODDAMN GAMES FOR IT AND I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS ONE, WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK!?"

So the right level of rage for a "Souls" game, but not really for the right reason...
"It is bitter – bitter", he answered,
"But I like it
Because it is bitter,
And because it is my heart."

mike-l
Posts: 2758
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:16 am UTC

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby mike-l » Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:11 pm UTC

Yeah, waiting on the PC version here. Watching some streams though. Not sure how I feel about some things, like humanity changes, respawn caps, etc. But will definitely be picking it up next month.

The global death counter is awesome though
addams wrote:This forum has some very well educated people typing away in loops with Sourmilk. He is a lucky Sourmilk.

User avatar
philsov
Not a fan of Diane Kruger
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:58 pm UTC
Location: Texas

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby philsov » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:35 pm UTC

Humanity change is something I can dig. It's a half-throwback to Demon's Souls. Here you get to half-health after numerous deaths, and can get back to max only if you become human. In dark souls, humanity was only good for if you wanted to summon (or spawn an npc invader), item hunt, or buff your bonfire. Here you become human on a regular basis, because being at half health means you're in one-shot territory in a few locations.

Respawn caps I'm ambivalent about. It makes boss runs a bit easier. For example, the run to the boss of Sinner's citadel there's a lift with a foot plate, surrounded by 3 crossbowmen. You need to kill at least 1 of them to survive the ride; 2 kills with 1 bowman up means you just shield at him and then hop on. After a point, all that respawns is one crossbowman, which shaves off a minute-ish and saves me some health and effort. But at the same time, all these little kills would rack up on the souls so long as I kept on finding my puddle, giving me a massive levelup bank on kill. I mean, imagine doing DS1's four kings without having to take out the darkwraiths every single freakin' time.
The time and seasons go on, but all the rhymes and reasons are wrong
I know I'll discover after its all said and done I should've been a nun.

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:49 pm UTC

Avoiding forums and twitch a lot as I play through my first run. About 12 hours in so far and I'm very impressed. Fromsoft has done an excellent job adding new content to a rich franchise while still preserving what makes it great. I look forward to the high res PC version a lot.

User avatar
Kag
Posts: 1214
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:56 am UTC

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Kag » Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:51 am UTC

philsov wrote:Respawn caps I'm ambivalent about. It makes boss runs a bit easier. For example, the run to the boss of Sinner's citadel there's a lift with a foot plate, surrounded by 3 crossbowmen. You need to kill at least 1 of them to survive the ride; 2 kills with 1 bowman up means you just shield at him and then hop on. After a point, all that respawns is one crossbowman, which shaves off a minute-ish and saves me some health and effort. But at the same time, all these little kills would rack up on the souls so long as I kept on finding my puddle, giving me a massive levelup bank on kill. I mean, imagine doing DS1's four kings without having to take out the darkwraiths every single freakin' time.


Enemies start spawning again if you burn a bonfire ascetic. They'll be a bit stronger, though.
The Great Hippo wrote:I am starting to regret having used 'goat-fucker' in this context.

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:24 pm UTC

I'm coming up on what I believe to be the end of the game. Two more areas to run through before the final area. I've only been utterly stuck only twice where I had to look up details, coming after hours of searching and attempting things. It was inevitable I guess but I've managed to avoid the bulk of spoilers. Haven't watched a single boss or area strat video either. I know I've missed a lot of stuff despite trying to be really thorough. But I can already tell just how deep the game is.

Also those speed runners wasted no time at all. They were routing and planning from day one it seems.

User avatar
philsov
Not a fan of Diane Kruger
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:58 pm UTC
Location: Texas

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby philsov » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:17 pm UTC

Done with the majority of the game :D

Like its predecessor it thrives on secrets and word of mouth. I was done with 3 of the primal bosses, and kind of hit a wall. The only place left to explore was that rotation deal in Majula, but how to operate it?

Spoiler:
Go back to the miracle vendor, and spam talk to her. Only then will she move from her area and spin it for you.


Secrets are cool, but something like this to progress the game is just bad design, imo.

Found the Sunbro covenant and quickly joined that, then spent an evening getting summoned for the Rotten boss. It's a hardish battle, but mostly tank and spank. With the summonings totaling to 2, one of us 3 would play tank and the other 2 would just massacre the poor boss with all manner of bow/magic/fire/lightning.

Slammed my face for waaaay longer than necessary with poison pit naga lady. Eventually killed her by virtue of being overleveled for the area (I did all this out of order, apparently) and liberal use of ranged attacks and estus flasks.

Spoiler:
There is a drain for her arena.

Spoiler:
It involves a torch.

Spoiler:
And that spinny contraption in the area.


In the Iron Forge area right now; the bridge seems to be a massive PvP hotspot with all manner of red signstones and dragon eyes on the ground.
The time and seasons go on, but all the rhymes and reasons are wrong
I know I'll discover after its all said and done I should've been a nun.

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:43 pm UTC

The contraption in Majula was a major stumbling block for me also. I had no clue what it was, how it operated, or that I had already done the things necessary to get past it. In looking up one very small detail up on my first run, I was given a slight spoiler. "Oh, I had already done that, I just hadn't gone back to check there yet. Woops."

Is it bad design? Maybe. But Dark Souls II feels more like Kings Field IV + Demons' Souls than it feels like it's immediate predecessor. Kings Field IV was loaded with vague things like that.

Spoiler:
And doors like the Kings Doors "Produce the symbol of the King".


I also beat my head on the pit naga. I think I spent a good 4-5 hours trying to kill her before I sought help elsewhere and realized I wasn't even close to thinking correctly to have found the answer on my own. Score one for Fromsoft there.

I was pleasantly surprised at how much content was left in the game after what I felt like was the end. Twice I was like "This is the last area" only to go through two more fantastic areas. I'm on my 2nd playthrough, which I'm going at much more slowly and trying out pyromancies. I'm also prepping myself for when I start doing permadeath runs. That's going to be really interesting.

User avatar
emceng
Posts: 3167
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:38 pm UTC
Location: State of Hockey
Contact:

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby emceng » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:07 pm UTC

I am not reading this thread, or anything else to avoid spoilers, but I am going to post my random thoughts here in a spoiler, so I can recall them later, and address any questions that are unresolved later in the game. Feel free to respond with answers, but I won't read them for at least a few weeks.

Spoiler:
Early – spell casting is overpowered. Got 2 sets of Soul Arrow, and blasted everything in my path.
Last Giant was annoying, until I switched tactics, then dropped him in one attempt.

Those damned fire lizards are incredibly annoying, and I don’t see a way to stand up and fight them. They move super fast, knock you down, spin on a dime, and hit hard. After many attempts snuck around them last night for mediocre loot. At level 71 they kicked my ass.

Pharros’ lockstones – early felt like I had to hoard them, then had a bunch and no use for them. Hit Saint’s grave area last night, and found a ton of spots that use them. Wondering if I’ll run out, and if some are slots that should not be used – traps to make you waste stones.

Noticed that there are a bunch of covenants, and seems like there are optional bosses – Rat Guard, Executioner’s Chariot, and Old Dragonslayer all led to dead ends, with bonfires, and nothing except covenant guys.

I’ve beaten around a dozen bosses, but still haven’t found a single soapstone for summoning.

PvP is a touch annoying. Spells are OP in PvE, but in PvP they seem to be way too easy to dodge. Couple that with the change in blocking(locks you into getting pounded on), and I am going to get destroyed. Been invaded four times, all within about half an hour. Went into human form to try and drop a boss, failed, then did kill him(3 guardians). Then when trying to PvE, got invaded multiple times. No idea how that works.

Felt really dumb early – got to the Old Dragonslayer, but didn’t notice the chest outside. So spent a ton of time without the Cling Ring, when it would have been very helpful. I like the +1 ring thing, and four rings instead of two. Very useful as a caster. A little disappointed in the weapon/armor reinforcement. I’m probably missing things, but it feels like it’s less flexible. I’ve found about one stone of each type, and that’s it. Haven’t found an ember, or anything like that.

Dropped into the pit, went through the whole area, beat the boss, etc. Liked it, even though parts were annoying. Somehow missed the entrance to the Saints graveyard area when dropping down the first time…feel like it appeared afterwards, because it would be really hard to miss.

Annoyed by the lack of poison moss. Had a ton in 1, in 2 it seems way too rare.

Might have hit a spot like the Anor Londo archerers. Was working through the fire castle area, and got smashed by some archers that I couldn’t really reach.

Locked doors – argh! Wonder if they lead to new things, or loot, or what. Worried I’ll forget to go back to them, or I already missed the key somewhere.

Used the wiki or google twice – once to find out what I missed when I used the lever instead of chest in the ship(knew I should have looted first), second time when trying to figure out hidden doors. Freaking a, had to press ‘x’, not attack, despite the Pharros ones needing to be attacked.

A little disappointed in the map layout. In DeSo and DS1, everything was interconnected for the most part. Here, it feels like each area is a distinct place – a level, instead of part of a seamless whole.

Also seeing a minor technical glitch – seems like at least half the time I try to open the start menu, it doesn’t open, even after multiple attempts.

Not sure if I like the new method for weapon and armor repair.

The anti-petrification thing is neat.

Having enemies not reappear after so many attempts is neat and helpful, but every boss fight I've been able to reach without killing enemies - just running through(though the chariot run was sucky).
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. - CS Lewis

User avatar
eculc
Wet Peanut Butter
Posts: 451
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:25 am UTC

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby eculc » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:53 pm UTC

emceng wrote:I am not reading this thread, or anything else to avoid spoilers, but I am going to post my random thoughts here in a spoiler, so I can recall them later, and address any questions that are unresolved later in the game. Feel free to respond with answers, but I won't read them for at least a few weeks.

Spoiler:
Early – spell casting is overpowered. Got 2 sets of Soul Arrow, and blasted everything in my path.
Last Giant was annoying, until I switched tactics, then dropped him in one attempt.

Those damned fire lizards are incredibly annoying, and I don’t see a way to stand up and fight them. They move super fast, knock you down, spin on a dime, and hit hard. After many attempts snuck around them last night for mediocre loot. At level 71 they kicked my ass.

Pharros’ lockstones – early felt like I had to hoard them, then had a bunch and no use for them. Hit Saint’s grave area last night, and found a ton of spots that use them. Wondering if I’ll run out, and if some are slots that should not be used – traps to make you waste stones.

Noticed that there are a bunch of covenants, and seems like there are optional bosses – Rat Guard, Executioner’s Chariot, and Old Dragonslayer all led to dead ends, with bonfires, and nothing except covenant guys.

I’ve beaten around a dozen bosses, but still haven’t found a single soapstone for summoning.

PvP is a touch annoying. Spells are OP in PvE, but in PvP they seem to be way too easy to dodge. Couple that with the change in blocking(locks you into getting pounded on), and I am going to get destroyed. Been invaded four times, all within about half an hour. Went into human form to try and drop a boss, failed, then did kill him(3 guardians). Then when trying to PvE, got invaded multiple times. No idea how that works.

Felt really dumb early – got to the Old Dragonslayer, but didn’t notice the chest outside. So spent a ton of time without the Cling Ring, when it would have been very helpful. I like the +1 ring thing, and four rings instead of two. Very useful as a caster. A little disappointed in the weapon/armor reinforcement. I’m probably missing things, but it feels like it’s less flexible. I’ve found about one stone of each type, and that’s it. Haven’t found an ember, or anything like that.

Dropped into the pit, went through the whole area, beat the boss, etc. Liked it, even though parts were annoying. Somehow missed the entrance to the Saints graveyard area when dropping down the first time…feel like it appeared afterwards, because it would be really hard to miss.

Annoyed by the lack of poison moss. Had a ton in 1, in 2 it seems way too rare.

Might have hit a spot like the Anor Londo archerers. Was working through the fire castle area, and got smashed by some archers that I couldn’t really reach.

Locked doors – argh! Wonder if they lead to new things, or loot, or what. Worried I’ll forget to go back to them, or I already missed the key somewhere.

Used the wiki or google twice – once to find out what I missed when I used the lever instead of chest in the ship(knew I should have looted first), second time when trying to figure out hidden doors. Freaking a, had to press ‘x’, not attack, despite the Pharros ones needing to be attacked.

A little disappointed in the map layout. In DeSo and DS1, everything was interconnected for the most part. Here, it feels like each area is a distinct place – a level, instead of part of a seamless whole.

Also seeing a minor technical glitch – seems like at least half the time I try to open the start menu, it doesn’t open, even after multiple attempts.

Not sure if I like the new method for weapon and armor repair.

The anti-petrification thing is neat.

Having enemies not reappear after so many attempts is neat and helpful, but every boss fight I've been able to reach without killing enemies - just running through(though the chariot run was sucky).


In case you're curious - No real spoilers, but there is some additional info in here, so I'll spoiler it anyways.

Spoiler:
The white soapstone is given to you by the knight in the lost bastille (I don't remember his name). He's sitting near the room with the ballistas pointed at the door.
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
For comparison, that means that if the cabbage guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender filled up his cart with lettuce instead, it would be about a quarter of a lethal dose.

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:03 am UTC

Spoiler:
It's Pate.

User avatar
eculc
Wet Peanut Butter
Posts: 451
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:25 am UTC

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby eculc » Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:37 pm UTC

Mishrak wrote:
Spoiler:
It's Pate.


Spoiler:
That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure so I just left it out.
Um, this post feels devoid of content. Good luck?
For comparison, that means that if the cabbage guy from Avatar: The Last Airbender filled up his cart with lettuce instead, it would be about a quarter of a lethal dose.

User avatar
emceng
Posts: 3167
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:38 pm UTC
Location: State of Hockey
Contact:

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby emceng » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:04 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I also realized that I haven’t done any grinding. I didn’t really have to grind in DS1, but I did – for the 20k key to the forest, and for levels to make some bosses easier.

Haven’t felt like I’ve struggled as much against some bosses. Capra Demon seemed impossible when I first met him. Only boss I didn’t kill soon after meeting was the chariot guy. Blind guy too, but that was more I got bored and chose to go elsewhere.

One thing I find annoying - vertical slashing attacks seem to have a huge width. Examples - the pruning guys in the forrest area before the chariot, and the blind boss. They do an attack slamming the ground, and I'll get hit even if I'm way out to the side.

Also realized I haven't seen NPC summoning signs anywhere. I mean yeah, I've been in soul form basically the whole game, but wondering about that. Was thinking of going human to fight the blind guy, but didn't - partly so I could actually get to bed last night. But 90% of the reason to go human would be to try and summon someone. If there's no one to summon, I'll feel like I wasted an effigy - especially when I'll die to the boss soon after.


eculc
Spoiler:
Thanks. I don't remember that, but I'll check it out tonight. Only ballistas I recall are 1) the full room of them very early on(before last giant), one in pursuer fight area, and one in the flamey castle area.

Also, kinda mad that I can't recall the names of all these areas, especially since they're easy to see with the travel option.
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. - CS Lewis

User avatar
philsov
Not a fan of Diane Kruger
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:58 pm UTC
Location: Texas

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby philsov » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:19 pm UTC

Haven’t found an ember, or anything like that.


For good reason.

Spoiler:
There's 1. This one enables all 9-ish effects to be imbued. I found it after I fought 3 primal bosses; kinda lame, imo.


Speaking of which, I think I'm a fan of the new upgrade system. Upgrades and imbues are two independent paths; getting a fire weapon +10 is done by getting a normal weapon to +10, and somewhere along the way zapping it with a firestone. And weapons with innate dual damage can go triple effect if you so choose (first two are weakened, of course). And magical imbues (magic weapon, sunsword, etc) can be used on imbued weapons as well!

Bleed is "meh" with its need for multiple hits and internal CD. And the mundane effect seems rather gimmicky

Spoiler:
Scales off your lowest stat.


But I think on a subsequent playthrough I'll run with it and see how well that works.
Last edited by philsov on Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:31 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
The time and seasons go on, but all the rhymes and reasons are wrong
I know I'll discover after its all said and done I should've been a nun.

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:32 pm UTC

re: The ember

Spoiler:
I found it the same way, after the first 3 major bosses. Which I think is probably the "intended" order. However, once you know where it's at, you can go straight to it - although it's still a decent ways into the game.

Mundane path should be pretty interesting to try, but it does seem rather gimmicky. I think you basically want to get all your stats to 20 for the best damage potential in a non NG+ run. Would work pretty cool with a spell setup I bet.

User avatar
emceng
Posts: 3167
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:38 pm UTC
Location: State of Hockey
Contact:

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby emceng » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:47 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Found the ember, finally can make weapons - hooray! Except I don't have a freaking magic stone, so can't make a sword that is useful at all for my current build.

Iron Keep - very frustrating. Spent two hours last night fighting the Smelter Demon. Ended up burning through four humanity to summon people, and still died three times. Was also frustrated because it seems like I was at a dead end - go through Iron Keep, or quit playing. Either Smelter Demon, or push through farther without having that bonfire.
Last edited by emceng on Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:12 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. - CS Lewis

User avatar
philsov
Not a fan of Diane Kruger
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:58 pm UTC
Location: Texas

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby philsov » Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:42 pm UTC

So... beat the game. Ending spoilers.

Spoiler:
Seemed rather anti climatic. Acquire giant souls, kill queen, and then sit on an entombed throne. No closure anywhere :\

As far as boss battles go, this (like a lot of em) was trivialized by ranged attacks. 8x Greater lightning spear at ~45 faith and +8 priest chime was almost enough to kill her.
The time and seasons go on, but all the rhymes and reasons are wrong
I know I'll discover after its all said and done I should've been a nun.

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:47 pm UTC

philsov wrote:So... beat the game. Ending spoilers.

Spoiler:
Seemed rather anti climatic. Acquire giant souls, kill queen, and then sit on an entombed throne. No closure anywhere :\

As far as boss battles go, this (like a lot of em) was trivialized by ranged attacks. 8x Greater lightning spear at ~45 faith and +8 priest chime was almost enough to kill her.



Spoiler:
There was closure in the first one? I know what you mean though. All the souls games have had rather anticlimactic endings.

User avatar
Gelsamel
Lame and emo
Posts: 8237
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:49 am UTC
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Gelsamel » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:13 pm UTC

Went OP as shit Mundane Santier's Spear Avelyn... got bored after a while.

Now I'm playing Fashion Souls:
Spoiler:
Image



Edit:
Most difficult boss to date has been the Rune Guardians.


Only if you go there straight from Persuers which is the hard way to go about it.
"Give up here?"
- > No
"Do you accept defeat?"
- > No
"Do you think games are silly little things?"
- > No
"Is it all pointless?"
- > No
"Do you admit there is no meaning to this world?"
- > No

User avatar
SecondTalon
SexyTalon
Posts: 26254
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 2:10 pm UTC
Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Mars. HA!
Contact:

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:58 pm UTC

I'm ..partially lost.

Spoiler:
I've done the forest and killed the Last Giant. I found the Dragonslayer and took him out, and the other one on the opposite end. I went on the ghost ship and killed that guy that faces both ways. He sucked, but got substantially easier with the NPC summon.

I clamored around the tower in the forest area and found Floaty McKnightface and killed him too.

So now I have two, not one but TWO ways to the same place - Lost Bastille or something like that.

And that place sucks. I found a smith there, eventually, and in the bottom of a prison a way to some Guardians or Protectors, I forget their name as I fought them once on a tiny platform, had no idea if the fall down was safe and have the impression there were three of them. There's got to be a better entrance, right?

I also found a way to the Huntsman's Copse, and the skeleton battle at the end of it where everything was going okay until 400 fucking Wheel Skeletons popped up (fuck those guys so much) and put an end to my adventure.

I guess my question is - will I find a third way to Lost Bastille that won't have me coming in the side door of that guardian fight, or do I need to just suck it up and deal with it?
Really, though, I guess I'm looking for one of three statements -

Yes, there's a third way in and that'll not send you in that stupid drop to that stupid platform.

No, there's not a third way in, but you missed the proper entrance somewhere and are going in the back door

Suck it up and deal with it.

So... lemme know which one is accurate.
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
heuristically_alone wrote:I have been informed that this is called writing a book.

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:13 pm UTC

When you're really stuck for good, let me know. There is one thing in the game that is incredibly easy to miss and I feel it's poorly designed. Meanwhile, my responses:

Spoiler:
SecondTalon wrote:And that place sucks. I found a smith there, eventually, and a way to some Guardians or Protectors, I forget their name as I fought them once on a tiny platform, had no idea if the fall down was safe and have the impression there were three of them. There's got to be a better entrance, right?


-It's safe to jump down there. Are you referring to the 3 Ruin Sentinels?


Spoiler:
SecondTalon wrote:I also found a way to the Huntsman's Copse, and the skeleton battle at the end of it where everything was going okay until 400 fucking Wheel Skeletons popped up (fuck those guys so much) and put an end to my adventure.

-There's definitely a means to progress past these guys. They're not that hard, although the bonewheels are scary and they've even been nerfed before the PC release.


Spoiler:
SecondTalon wrote:I guess my question is - will I find a third way to Lost Bastille that won't have me coming in the side door of that guardian fight, or do I need to just suck it up and deal with it?

-While I think there's another way around them, I'm not super familiar with it. However, keep working on those guys. You might also check the cells (edit: before the fog gate) while you're in human form.

User avatar
philsov
Not a fan of Diane Kruger
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:58 pm UTC
Location: Texas

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby philsov » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:22 pm UTC

Suck it up and deal with it.


That one!

Standard strat is as follows:

Spoiler:
Fight the first one on the small platform. If they fall off, use that as a good time to drink up/rebuff/whatever. As the first one dies, the other two will aggro. There's a little bit of a lag, so you can get #2 to 1/2 - 3/4 health before number 3 jumps up onto the platform.

Once they're both up, bail bail bail. Heal up from fall damage, and they'll eventually hop down. Now comes the worst part of everything, but with patience you'll be fine. Ranged battle recommended; focus the one that's already been weakened, or whichever one doesnt have shield up.

~

NPC spellcaster summon available. Will pretty much solo the fight for you, but screw that noise.
The time and seasons go on, but all the rhymes and reasons are wrong
I know I'll discover after its all said and done I should've been a nun.

User avatar
SecondTalon
SexyTalon
Posts: 26254
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 2:10 pm UTC
Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Mars. HA!
Contact:

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:54 pm UTC

Damn. I was hoping there was another entrance that didn't feel like it had me on a balance beam, but of course it couldn't be that easy.

Thanks.


Oh, and re: Mishrak's second spoiler - I'm not really that concerned about that fight, I only even tried it once - just throwing that in as a "Here's where I am in the world" sort of thing, in case getting past that point made my other meatwall easier somehow.
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
heuristically_alone wrote:I have been informed that this is called writing a book.

User avatar
emceng
Posts: 3167
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:38 pm UTC
Location: State of Hockey
Contact:

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby emceng » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:05 pm UTC

I too have hit a bit of a wall. As far as I can tell, need to beat this boss to progress at all. Took about a week break because I was busy.

Spoiler:
Reached the end of Iron Keep, and fighting the Old Iron King. As far as I can tell, I can't go anywhere else. Have two other lord souls(Blob guy and blind guy?) Can't open the King's door, can't open the door to the castle let's say west of the foggy forest bonfire.

Beaten everything else I've found. Two things I'm wondering about, but don't know what to do yet - Getting any loot across lava. I glanced at the wiki a week or two ago, and what I read implied I needed lots of health and fire resist. And maybe dousing with those Pharros things? I didn't really understand the Pharros water things.

Also wondering if I should spend a branch of yore on the one stone lion guy near the one way tree bridge back to the bonfire. He's standing all alone, not blocking anything - so wondering if there is a reason to unfreeze him. Maybe he has the key to the room near the frog guys. Have two branches left, kind of holding onto them for now.

Now wondering about the midget area at the top of the tower in Iron Keep. I thought I cleared it weeks ago, but now I don't remember.

Wish I had some stronger spells too. Two casts of Soul Spear aren't enough.
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. - CS Lewis

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:16 pm UTC

That was the same wall I hit and was referring to up above, and that's the mechanic that's really friggin poorly designed. Like really poorly designed. And actually, ST is already past it as he got to the Huntsman's Copse.

Spoiler:
Talk to the cleric lady in Heide's Tower till she moves. Find her again when she moves to the spot with the contraption that you can't operate. There's ZERO indication that the thing there is operated by miracles, and even LESS indication that the cleric will move there.

User avatar
philsov
Not a fan of Diane Kruger
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:58 pm UTC
Location: Texas

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby philsov » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:29 pm UTC

emceng wrote:Also wondering if I should spend a branch of yore on the one stone lion guy near the one way tree bridge back to the bonfire. He's standing all alone, not blocking anything - so wondering if there is a reason to unfreeze him. Maybe he has the key to the room near the frog guys. Have two branches left, kind of holding onto them for now.


Might as well, yeah.

Spoiler:
He does indeed have a key for that frog guy room. Inside is an NPC bird lady thing.

She's a blacksmith of sorts, and lets you trade in boss souls for cool shit if you find her again.

Her shop is located in the next spoiler


Part 2
Spoiler:
Sandpit area with the spiders and the zombies and those sniping caster dudes. Bottom pit-ish, if you happened to find a room with an altar in it and nothing of consequence; you may hear her cooing nearby/


~

Started up a new character and going for the mundane enchant/build. Made a beeline for the ember, now I need to find some stones and I'll be rocking.
The time and seasons go on, but all the rhymes and reasons are wrong
I know I'll discover after its all said and done I should've been a nun.

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:43 pm UTC

I'm at the tail end of a MLGS + sorcery build myself. I've felt like those spells were a lot more balanced than in Dks1. Including enemies that were so resistant to magic that it was hard to deal damage to them.

Also co-op is really well done. I'm quite impressed at how quickly it is to hook up with people you know.

User avatar
Gelsamel
Lame and emo
Posts: 8237
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:49 am UTC
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Gelsamel » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:30 am UTC

Mishrak wrote:Also co-op is really well done. I'm quite impressed at how quickly it is to hook up with people you know.


Until you get into the soul memory dead zones and you can't coop with anyone anymore.

Edit:


My responses in bold, spoilers. If you don't actually want to know the answers don't read:
emceng wrote:I too have hit a bit of a wall. As far as I can tell, need to beat this boss to progress at all. Took about a week break because I was busy.

Spoiler:
Reached the end of Iron Keep, and fighting the Old Iron King. As far as I can tell, I can't go anywhere else. Have two other lord souls(Blob guy and blind guy?) Can't open the King's door, can't open the door to the castle let's say west of the foggy forest bonfire.
There is one more lord soul in addition to the 1+2 you listed.

Beaten everything else I've found. Two things I'm wondering about, but don't know what to do yet - Getting any loot across lava. I glanced at the wiki a week or two ago, and what I read implied I needed lots of health and fire resist. And maybe dousing with those Pharros things? I didn't really understand the Pharros water things.
I did it late game without the water, but I guess the water will help. There is a Pharros lockstone face up near the building you have to jump to w/ an archer where the dull ember is. It leaks water that puts water on you. Try using your best fire resist armor and flash sweat. There is also some resist rings later on, and little burs that give you fire resist. The loot isn't worth it.

Also wondering if I should spend a branch of yore on the one stone lion guy near the one way tree bridge back to the bonfire. He's standing all alone, not blocking anything - so wondering if there is a reason to unfreeze him. Maybe he has the key to the room near the frog guys. Have two branches left, kind of holding onto them for now.
He drops a key needed for a weaponsmith who will exchange boss souls for boss weapons... but you're not upto the area where she moves so you won't be able to use her anyway. She resides in the location just before the last lord soul boss that you've not mentioned is.

Now wondering about the midget area at the top of the tower in Iron Keep. I thought I cleared it weeks ago, but now I don't remember.
There is also a tower in the lost basille by the way.

Wish I had some stronger spells too. Two casts of Soul Spear aren't enough.
If you have more attunement slots you can buy more soul spears and attune them more. You also get items which give you more casts or more attunements later on. I personally recommend going with less powerful attacks because you get more damage over all their casts than with the harder hitting moves. Ie. 10 times 100 damage vs 3 times 200 damage.



As an aside: It's generally good practice to exhaust NPC dialogs when you meet them. Something you just have to know about Dark Souls, I guess. Very unfair to those that wouldn't know otherwise.
"Give up here?"
- > No
"Do you accept defeat?"
- > No
"Do you think games are silly little things?"
- > No
"Is it all pointless?"
- > No
"Do you admit there is no meaning to this world?"
- > No

User avatar
Kag
Posts: 1214
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:56 am UTC

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Kag » Fri May 02, 2014 7:46 pm UTC

Mishrak wrote:That was the same wall I hit and was referring to up above, and that's the mechanic that's really friggin poorly designed. Like really poorly designed. And actually, ST is already past it as he got to the Huntsman's Copse.

Spoiler:
Talk to the cleric lady in Heide's Tower till she moves. Find her again when she moves to the spot with the contraption that you can't operate. There's ZERO indication that the thing there is operated by miracles, and even LESS indication that the cleric will move there.


Spoiler:
Well, not that it would help you figure out what to do, but as it happens, that thing ISN'T operated by miracles.
The Great Hippo wrote:I am starting to regret having used 'goat-fucker' in this context.

User avatar
philsov
Not a fan of Diane Kruger
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:58 pm UTC
Location: Texas

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby philsov » Mon May 05, 2014 8:41 pm UTC

Made into the castle with my mundane build character.

It's been pretty fun so far; surely more melee-reliant (ie, faster, but more prone to death) than my first playthrough.

I've heard how OP mundane is with Santier's spear, but I don't have the stats for it just yet; 18 dex and str currently. I'm using a broken thief sword with good results, and have a backup Bandit's Knife imbued with poison. Swipe at them enough with the latter and they'll bleed out and get poisoned at about the same time, which is sometimes better than the steady dps of the thief sword. It's probably my favorite secondary weapon now and great for taking down high HP baddies. A good chunk of bosses can be poisoned, too, with high effectiveness.
The time and seasons go on, but all the rhymes and reasons are wrong
I know I'll discover after its all said and done I should've been a nun.

User avatar
Gelsamel
Lame and emo
Posts: 8237
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:49 am UTC
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Gelsamel » Tue May 06, 2014 1:16 am UTC

Mundane anything fast is pretty op. You can destroy pretty much anything with a mundane dagger.
"Give up here?"
- > No
"Do you accept defeat?"
- > No
"Do you think games are silly little things?"
- > No
"Is it all pointless?"
- > No
"Do you admit there is no meaning to this world?"
- > No

User avatar
SecondTalon
SexyTalon
Posts: 26254
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 2:10 pm UTC
Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Mars. HA!
Contact:

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby SecondTalon » Wed May 07, 2014 4:07 pm UTC

The Undead Purgatory Boss Fight is Amaaaaazing.
Spoiler:
No idea what's up with the short dude by the bonfire. I won't have fun here? Screw you, I'll have fun where I want!

Still, not sure if it dead-ends there or not. Same thing with the Skeletal Lords - beat their asses on my second attempt, and then.. dead end? I'm probably missing something.

Got a fragrant branch of yore - not sure where, maybe the Lost Bastile/Sinner's place with the primeval bonfire. Was hoping that guy was going to be like the Old Hero fight in Demon Souls, shame it wasn't. At any rate, moved the woman by the mechanism, turns out she's the pyromancer teacher (still no flame - did I miss it somewhere?) and found a set of paths, two of which end in "lol come back later, noob" and one that's a horrible, terrifying misty place. Fuck that place. Fuck it's ghosting ghosts hard. Fuck those guys. So hard. Fuck them. I just ran straight through it screaming "Fuck all y'all!" and popped out the other side with some Minotaurs and later fell in a pit with some gloop that basically ate my equipment. But whatever - Progress!


At any rate, here's my questions.. looking for Yes/No answers here.

Spoiler:
Undead Purgatory - that a dead end?

Skeletal Lords - Dead end?

Pyromancy Flame - did I miss it somewhere, or is it coming up? I have access to and beaten the (or at least a) boss in the following areas(if there's even a boss there) - Things Betwix, Majula, Forest of Fallen Giants, Heide's Tower of Flame, Cathedral of Blue, No-Man's Warf, Lost Bastille, Sinner's Rise, Huntsman's Copse, Undead Purgatory

And I have access to, but have not completed - Belfry Luna, Shaded Woods


And yeah, if those areas I'm asking about aren't dead ends and there's actually a giant staircase with floating torches lighting the way to it, I'm going to take this moment to remind you that in Dark Souls it took me probably 30 minutes to find the staircase leading up to the Undead Burg, and I didn't even notice the stairs going down to New Londo until I was taking the shortcut to Firelink from Capra, or maybe even after I'd beaten Capra and was heading to the Depths. I am not an observant man is what I'm saying here.
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
heuristically_alone wrote:I have been informed that this is called writing a book.

User avatar
philsov
Not a fan of Diane Kruger
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:58 pm UTC
Location: Texas

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby philsov » Wed May 07, 2014 5:54 pm UTC

The Undead Purgatory Boss Fight is Amaaaaazing.


Amen to that. Got good mileage out of the Force spell on that one.

It's mostly execution, but tricksey.

At any rate, here's my questions.. looking for Yes/No answers here.


I feel the need to expand on these answered; so 2 spoilers per :p

Undead Purgatory -
Spoiler:
a dead end.


UP followup:
Spoiler:
Dude there is a covenant guy. Equivalent of darkwraiths; you need to have successfully invaded someone via cracked eye orb or found a "I invaded and killed someone" token in your travels.


Skeletal Lords -
Spoiler:
Not dead end.


SL followup:
Spoiler:
Boss room has a door to travel through. iirc its on the left side on the arena as you're coming in.


Pyromancy flame -
Spoiler:
You missed it.


PF followup:
Spoiler:
No Man's wharf, after the boss iirc.


PF followup2:
Spoiler:
There is a 2nd pyro flame available as well; this one increases in power the more hollow you are with a penalty for being human. If you're the sort to run around with perma 50% HP, this one may be for you instead. You have no found the area where this is located yet -- just wanna save you on some potential upgrade mats
The time and seasons go on, but all the rhymes and reasons are wrong
I know I'll discover after its all said and done I should've been a nun.

User avatar
SecondTalon
SexyTalon
Posts: 26254
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 2:10 pm UTC
Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Mars. HA!
Contact:

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby SecondTalon » Wed May 07, 2014 6:30 pm UTC

Thanks for the assists there.
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
heuristically_alone wrote:I have been informed that this is called writing a book.

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Wed May 07, 2014 7:48 pm UTC

They were better about that in Dark Souls - revealing whether or not an area was a dead end. I kinda felt like, while stuff was well hidden, it was almost too well hidden in Dark Souls 2 - in the sense that you couldn't just think your way through. Maybe it was just me, but I ran around for a good 4 hours before I found a very obvious path that was hidden between two towers. I just never rotated my camera that direction.


On Pyromancy (some spoilery complaints)
Spoiler:
I really feel like Fromsoft took a dump on Pyromancy in Dark Souls 2.
1)The spell and item placement is really screwed up. It's hard to do a pyromancy themed run because you have to clear several bosses before you even get the flame (Dragon Rider -> Thing in Deadman's Wharf). And then the people who do sell the pyromancies are only accessible after using branches of yore (girl before shaded forest, mage bro in the Bastille). So not only do you get the flame late, you also get the spells late. Sure you can rush the other flame that scales with your hollowing, but you still don't get any spells other than fireball and the odd one that drops.
2) Chaos pyromancy is either NG+2 (bonfire ascetics) or a crapload of PVP. - Why they would do this, I do not know. I have yet to obtain them.
3) Why can't you start as a pyromancer? I don't get it at all.

The pyros I have used have been somewhat bland. I like Flame swathe, but other than that, the normal pyrocs have seemed to under perform from my experience. They look /amazing/ but that's about it. To be fair, sorceries have been similar, although they seem to be dramatically more useful and are accessible earlier than pyromancies. You also don't need special items to upgrade a catalyst.

User avatar
Koa
Posts: 532
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:20 am UTC

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Koa » Thu May 08, 2014 8:46 am UTC

I actually had that problem in the first few minutes of the game. I didn't see the narrow passageway by the first bonfire and was running around confused for a little while. I didn't expect to go through a house to progress. A lot of the level design is logically inconsistent like that. matthewmatosis's critique (spoilers) explains some of the major consistency problems.

Anyway, I just finished this title today, which is a first for me in this series. I could never quite stand the simple, slow, and deliberate nature of the combat. Once you initiate an action there's nothing you can do until the action completes, which can be a couple seconds. So, knowing that you or the enemy will die well before it happens is fairly common. "Oh, that hit didn't connect, I guess I'm dead then. I'm going to be stunned for too long from my missed swing, and that guy is going to swing at me which is going to stun me and then that other guy will finish me off." --YOU DIED-- "Yes... yes I'm aware."

Why isn't there additional input during these actions that I can perform? For instance, there was one time when I had to roll to avoid an attack, and I knew that the roll was going to put me just a wee slight bit too far off the edge of a cliff. I performed the roll because I would have died anyway, but while the roll was executing I was attempting to move in the opposite direction to maybe slow my roll. But no, you have no control over any action once it is initiated, so I finished my roll and ever so gently slid to my death.

These games are revered and marketed for being difficult, but no one talks about the insane degree of simplicity and lack of interactivity when you're in the throes of combat, which is in my opinion the far more important detail. Devil May Cry 3 is also difficult, but the difficulty comes from your inability to control your character to its full potential. Once you master your character, nothing can touch you and you can take on any challenges that the game tries to throw at you. In this series its the opposite, controlling your character to its full potential is almost immediate, and the danger is in the unknown about what the enemies or the world can do.

Of course it does make a lot more sense that the mechanics are this way thematically. DMC3 can give you a power trip, and Dark Souls 2 is generally about despair and powerlessness. But, some depth to the combat could be the difference from "this is going to be close" and "well I'm dead" like I described above.

I don't think these games are for me, but I can appreciate how they break archetypes and tropes of video games. Though it seems like as the series progresses it's starting to fall into other traps. I'm afraid it might be all downhill from here. The popularity of the series now affords it no room for the creativity that sparked it. The background lore in this title affirms that the most with all of the fanservice. Miyazaki stepping down might be synonymous with Sakaguchi stepping down from Final Fantasy or Kojima's desperate attempts to step down from Metal Gear. Games built for fans of a great game rather than for the spirit of making great games.

User avatar
Gelsamel
Lame and emo
Posts: 8237
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:49 am UTC
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Gelsamel » Thu May 08, 2014 9:25 am UTC

DMC is an action game. Dark Souls 2 is 'batman the game', you plan and memorize and win the fight before you start. It's a slow and thoughtful game where you plan everything out and experiment with different ideas until you get the result you want. It isn't a twitch reaction action packed beatemup. Not to say Dark Souls has a perfect system or anything.
"Give up here?"
- > No
"Do you accept defeat?"
- > No
"Do you think games are silly little things?"
- > No
"Is it all pointless?"
- > No
"Do you admit there is no meaning to this world?"
- > No

User avatar
Mishrak
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:15 pm UTC
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Mishrak » Thu May 08, 2014 12:57 pm UTC

A twitch streamer and friend of mine affectionately referred to Dark Souls combat as "turn based in realm time." While not precisely accurate, I think he was spot on with his statement. The enemy does an action, and you can either wait and react, or you can intercept it and act first. Once you do an action, you are most certainly committed to that action so it's important to think about what you're going to do. There IS a margin for error though and not every mistake you make is completely fatal. Of course if you chug an Estus Flask with 5% health left and the enemy is in mid swing, you're gonna die. No question about it. The souls games (generally) force you as the player to be at a constant state of alertness that when relaxed, typically involves you dying in short order.
Spoiler:
Dark Souls 2 is surprisingly linear with its fights, especially bosses and while it did many things well, the genuine terror of fighting Nito or Ornstein and Smough is missing.


Koa wrote:I don't think these games are for me, but I can appreciate how they break archetypes and tropes of video games. Though it seems like as the series progresses it's starting to fall into other traps. I'm afraid it might be all downhill from here. The popularity of the series now affords it no room for the creativity that sparked it. The background lore in this title affirms that the most with all of the fanservice. Miyazaki stepping down might be synonymous with Sakaguchi stepping down from Final Fantasy or Kojima's desperate attempts to step down from Metal Gear. Games built for fans of a great game rather than for the spirit of making great games.


Dark Souls 2 lacked a huge chunk of the innovation that Demons Souls started and Dark Souls 1 masterfully took to another level. I also agree that the series is likely downhill from here if they don't dramatically change the way things work in the next installment. Having said that, before you say the games aren't for you, I think it worth your time to at least try Dark Souls or Demons Souls (if you can). While similar mechanically, there are some huge differences that make them quite enjoyable. But props to you for clearing the game and your opinion is a sound one I'd say.

User avatar
Koa
Posts: 532
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:20 am UTC

Re: Dark Souls 2

Postby Koa » Thu May 08, 2014 2:31 pm UTC

I like the "turn based in real time" explanation. The different type of difficult that this series presents seems inherent with how much it limits your character. I think it can preserve the different type of difficulty while also breaking up some of the "turn based" side of the combat. It would help quell my frustration with it if you could control your roll a little or hold the trigger for a longer windup and such. Small dynamic elements can go a long way with me.

I did play Dark Souls and surprisingly got about halfway before giving up. I ended up watching a full playthrough and can see how it would be quite enjoyable as you said, but it's the combat mechanics that are like a brick wall to me. Maybe I'll try it again at some point though. Thanks for the kind words.


Return to “Gaming”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests