The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

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The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby Amarantha » Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:33 am UTC

I was going to start this last week in honour of Rossi taking the MotoGP Championship, but decided to wait a week to avoid spoiling those who hadn't yet seen it. The Phillip Island GP starts in half an hour :)

I also follow World Superbikes (love me some Nori), so I won't come back to this thread until I've seen the Le Mans race.

Does anyone else follow the bikes? Prefer something with a few more wheels? Wings, perhaps?

Discuss your favourite engine-powered racing moments here.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby MotorToad » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:57 pm UTC

I freaking love bike racing! Motorsport seems to have a pretty low following here, but a few have surfaced in the grassroots racing thread.

I've been cornerworking since I got out of college, so I've had the chance to work a lot of races, mostly at Barber but several at TGPR and a few at Road Atlanta. I've gotten to work AMA, lots of WERA and CCS, Bland-Am, HSR, AHRMA, all sorts of stuff. Bikes are by far the most fun, to ride, watch, and work, but I'll never be able to race one. I'm fast in a cage but making a bike go fast takes an incredible amount of cajones!

Even though all the championships have been wrapped up, there's so much to look forward to next year! Spies in WSB, Haga on Ducati, the Aprilia superbike (I'm guessing failboat, but I hope not), Nicky on Ducati, and Mladin back in Australia tending his garden.

I don't know if you're aware of any of the crap that's going down in American superbike racing, but a lot of very talented riders are looking for international work. BBoz is probably going to be back in WSB, Hayes and Zemke are both trying to get rides there. Hodgson, Mladin, Two Haydens, Hacking, EBoz, DiSalvo; if the AMA doesn't sort itself out the euro circuit is going to have too many riders and not nearly enough bikes. I'm half hoping to see Yoshi, American Honda, Graves, and Kawasaki pick up stakes and go WSB racing. I'm not sure how well they'd do but it'd be neat to see all those bikes on the grid!
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby wst » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:42 pm UTC

Spoilers are okay, they make the thread more aerodynamic and provide downforce. However, they only work when you're doing ~80mph.
Spoiler:
So use retractable spoilers like this


I give up on Formula 1. It is too much politics. I love the BTCC and the sister championships that follow it aroun, the Ginetta Juniors, the Seat Leon cup, etc.

I also quite like drifting, but it's not as pure as the other sports, but damn it looks good.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby cypherspace » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:59 pm UTC

Lewis Hamilton is the boy! I am mightily looking forward to the last few races of the season. I thought he deserved to win the championship last year and was let down by bad team decisions, in China especially. He's already been let down this year and fought back to claim victory without their help, but I desperately hope they don't do it again, because he might not be able to this time. I may be a biased Brit but he still seems to be the most talented driver I've seen since Schumacher - he broke record after record in his first season and I have no doubt he will be one of the all-time greats... despite all the politics desperately trying to beat him down. C'MON LEWIS!
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby MotorToad » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:33 am UTC

I've watched a couple of F1 races from the 1983 season (they pop up on the racing torrent sites). It's astounding how much better the racing was back then! More disappointments (especially if your favorite driver had a BMW engine) but it really was a better show. It's a lot safer now, but I think it's too corporate, too clean. My DVR records the races, but I often don't get around to watching them.

These days we get no coverage at all here of BTCC, WRC, DTM, or anything other than redneck roundy-round. I actually was at the first NATCC race (worst acronym EVAR!) but that didn't catch on at all in the 'States.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby InstinctSage » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:43 am UTC

I'm a fan of Rally, but the only coverage I ever see are highlight reels, and they tend to be so disjointed that it's just not the same.
What kind of coverage can you get of individual runs?
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby Amarantha » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:09 am UTC

Nori won race 1, yay! But I'm happy for Bayliss winning the 50th of his 150 races and his last championship on the same day. Nori can have it next year :P It's going to be interesting to see how he goes on the Duke, and Corser onna Beemer.

When I win the lottery I am so going to just follow the bikes around the world.

Ya, MT, I don't follow the AMA (barely get time to watch WSBK and MotoGP), but am interested to see all the talented riders coming out of the USA. One side-effect of getting America interested is that the sport gets BIG.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby cypherspace » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:21 am UTC

MotorToad wrote:I've watched a couple of F1 races from the 1983 season (they pop up on the racing torrent sites). It's astounding how much better the racing was back then! More disappointments (especially if your favorite driver had a BMW engine) but it really was a better show. It's a lot safer now, but I think it's too corporate, too clean. My DVR records the races, but I often don't get around to watching them.

It was, especially during the Schumacher era, but these last couple of seasons have been absolutely superb. You only have to watch the last race to get drama after drama, or the Nurburgring race from last year where practically every car just went straight on at the same hairpin after there was torrential rain. So entertaining! Or how about last year where it went down to the last race and Raikkonen won by one point from both Alonso AND Hamilton? It's not been like this for years.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby MotorToad » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:31 pm UTC

Yeah, it's getting better, but I just don't like it as much as I used to.

For one thing, the drivers are pretty much guaranteed they're going to finish if they don't do something stupid (or have something stupid happen upon them). In the '80s they had this neat knob that was like a potentiometer with settings for "reliable" "high power" and "shrapnel." Too much time in the boost and you were on fire, not enough time in the boost and you were 5th.

The cars in the early '80s weren't the best looking, but they look a lot better than today. IMO the cars looked the best before wings (Grand Prix Legends stylee), and the best of the winged cars were late '80s or early '90s. Yeah, they make tons of downforce now, but they look ass. :-| One of the things they've perfected with the new cars, too, is leaving a wake so horrid that the following cars can't keep up. Having a slipstream makes for exciting racing, having a car that's 2 seconds a lap faster and can't get by because it suddenly doesn't have any downforce is just bad racing.

When I'm king of worldwide racing, I'd have three rules for F1. Severely limited downforce, to traction control, and metal brakes. It strikes me as odd that they limit the engines so much when all they need to do to limit speeds is downforce and braking. I'd love to see 5 liter engines spinning to 21k rpm because they'd only get to use full throttle for about 0.01 seconds a lap! :) Speeds on the straights would go down because they'd be on the brakes half way down the straight instead of just after they turn in like they're doing now.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby cypherspace » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:18 pm UTC

Well, they're introducing the boost-thing in a couple of seasons, I think - regenerative braking into an electric engine which can be used to provide extra speed when needed. That should make it hella fun!
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby MotorToad » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:33 am UTC

Half an hour till the race starts! :D This'll be the first F1 race I've watched live in probably 3 years.


(Please ignore this post if you see it more than half an hour after I post it!) :mrgreen:
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby |Erasmus| » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:11 am UTC

Spoiler:
woo, 2 in a row for Alonso... I must say it's refreshing to see Renault and Tora Rosso actually challenging for race wins now. It was getting a little boring seeing Ferrari and McLaren win everything and only having one genuine challenger.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby wst » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:43 am UTC

OhMyWord I was *this* close to clicking that spoiler but I saw MotorToads post out f the corner of my eye... stupid race being at 4am. And I just realised I have to keep away from the internet for ages now as well.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby MotorToad » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:33 pm UTC

Hamilton's getting close! I hope he's able to pull it off.

The commentators commented (imagine that! :)) that other drivers were making disparaging remarks about Hamilton and saying they'd help Massa win. I really don't get this... the kid's been super successful mostly because he's a freaking incredible driver. I know Alonso hates him since, well, he can't keep up with him and makes him look stupid, but I don't get the other stuff.

Half an hour until the U.S. replay of the MotoGP race! I can't wait! Not that anything special's going to happen, bit it's bikes... God damn, I love bikes.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby Feer » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:02 pm UTC

As far as F1 goes, I'd wish some radical changes in it. The politics alone are kind of driving me away from the credibility of the sport, soon they'll have the whole races scripted how it needs to go. Give more variation in to the racing for example with the aforementioned suggestions here or have the starting grid in the reverse order of the driver WC points. I didn't bother watching the last race but I heard it pretty much went in the way that cars qualified in the order they normally would place in the race and so there was practically no competition in the race.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby cypherspace » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:13 pm UTC

This race was boring. Not many have been this year. GB, Italy, Hungary, Japan, Germany, Monaco were all superb races, packed with action. I agree the politics are all screwed up but there's barely a sport in the world that isn't.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby MotorToad » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:52 pm UTC

I had a poignant moment this afternoon. I "watched" the F1 race on DVR while doing stuff around the house, rewinding a couple of times when Matchett or Hobbs said something I didn't catch. (I DON'T REALLY CARE FOR THAT FISH GUY THAT STOOD IN FOR VARSHA... I'M NOT SURE WHAT IT IS ABOUT HIM I DON'T LIKE, BUT THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING!) Then when that was over, I sat down and watched the '65-'72 FIA Sportscars from the Monterey Historics. It may have just been a bunch of old rich farts fumbling around a track I've seen a thousand times, but the cars were interesting and there was actually a good bit of passing! Mostly because Bobby Rahal had to start from pit lane, and ran up from 33rd to 2nd. He's decently quick for a rich old fart! :D

Anything that matters as much as F1 does is going to have politicking, though. $40,000,000 a year garners some attention and people expect a certain amount of winning for their advertising fortunes. I pine for the days of James Hunt and the Hesketh Party Race Team, but I don't think that's ever going to materialize again. Kimi might do interesting things sometimes, but I just don't find him to be interesting. :-\
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby Plasma Man » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:57 pm UTC

I liked watching the world rally championship, but now it's not on terrestrial any more so I can't watch it. The only motorsport I watch now is F1 and I think the last four seasons have been pretty good ones. The Chinese grand prix was pretty boring, but having a final race decider for the second season in a row is excellent. I'm cheering for Felipe Massa to take the championship, I loathe Lewis Hamilton. Drivers I cheer for are:
Fernando Alonso: Put a stop to Schumacher's deadly boring winning streak and has really done well recently.
Robert Kubica: Smooth and consistent, but not afraid to pass. Came back brilliantly after his huge crash the other year.
Rubens Barricello: Most experienced guy in the field who deserves to have had more success in his career.
And whoever is in the slowest team, it was Super Aguri at the start of this year, now it's Force India. Just because I admire their attitude. They know they're not going to win any championship or really achieve anything, but they still turn up and race in the hope of getting a single point.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby cypherspace » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:51 pm UTC

Plasma Man wrote: I'm cheering for Felipe Massa to take the championship, I loathe Lewis Hamilton.

Can I ask why? I'm a biased Brit but I really do wonder why there's this antipathy to what I see as a supremely talented driver who has upset the established order in the sport.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby MotorToad » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:54 am UTC

I, also! (I hate saying "me, too!" :))

Bob Varsha mentioned last year that he was getting a lot of complaints about him talking too much about Hamilton. HTF can you talk too much about a guy who was the second person to win more than one race in his rookie F1 season?

I just don't get it. :|
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby Ieatsoap6 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:00 am UTC

MotorToad wrote:I, also! (I hate saying "me, too!" :))

Bob Varsha mentioned last year that he was getting a lot of complaints about him talking too much about Hamilton. HTF can you talk too much about a guy who was the second person to win more than one race in his rookie F1 season?

I just don't get it. :|

Have you ever watched the ITV feed with James Allen commentating? He's insane. He hailed the pass by Hamilton on Kovalainen at Silverstone as Senna-esque. As you may remember, Kova let him by per team orders.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby Amarantha » Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:00 am UTC

I took a break from this thread to avoid spoilers for the Indonesian superbike round, and then it was several days before sheol found out for me that there wasn't one :mrgreen: I'd copied the provisional calendar into my personal calendar and forgot to check for changes. (By the next time I hit the fora, the MotoGP had been on, so then I had to wait until I'd seen that.)

I can't imagine riding a MotoGP race in 42 degrees C (aka >100 degrees F). Battle for third was exciting :)
Spoiler:
Yay for Dovy, finally!
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby charliepanayi » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:48 am UTC

Not everyone gets to ride in one of the best cars in their rookie season. If you'd given Kubica a McLaren this year I think he'd have won the title (OK he's not a rookie but you get what I mean).

People are asking about Hamilton and why he attracts so much antipathy - well speaking personally it's not that I dislike him but I dislike all the ridiculous amount of adulation he gets from the media here, which just wears me down after a while. He is a very good driver, he will probably win the title this year and he may well win more - but he is NOT Senna, Prost and Schumacher reincarnated just yet. Not to mention the way drivers like Alonso are now vilified by the press over here for having the temerity to argue with Hamilton. Granted, Alonso was a petulant git who probably cost himself a title by stupidly getting into his spat with Hamilton, but he's not the demon he's been painted as in the UK and he's a very good driver when all is said and done.

And one more thing that annoys me - the way the press here (and many of the Hamilton fans I know) still seem to refuse to acknowledge that Kimi Raikonnen deserved the title last year - hell they barely mentioned it when he did win it.

I hope Kubica is a future champion anyway, great driver.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby cypherspace » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:23 am UTC

charliepanayi wrote:Not everyone gets to ride in one of the best cars in their rookie season. If you'd given Kubica a McLaren this year I think he'd have won the title (OK he's not a rookie but you get what I mean).

But some of them do, and let's face it, Hamilton didn't let anyone down in it. He beat a two-time world champion in the same car frequently. If his team hadn't made the mistake on tyres last year in China he'd have been world champion without a doubt. No-one else has broken so many records in their debut season. Sure, he hasn't actually won it yet, but his achievements deserve a hell of a lot of praise.

I agree Kubica is also a damn good driver, though, and I'd love to see him battle it out with Hamilton in a good car.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby MotorToad » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:45 pm UTC

I can understand getting tired of hearing about Hamilton. I felt the same about Schumacher, I guess.

Amarantha, I was really happy for Dovy, but I wish Hayden had gotten him. He was obviously a little bit faster almost everywhere, but not enough to get by and stay by.

One more MotoGP, one more WSB, one more F1 race. I'm already jonesing for winter testing news! :(
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby Amarantha » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:33 pm UTC

I didn't feel sorry for Hayden, because I figure he'll kick some arse on the Duc next year. I have a tendency to barrack for the underdog. Well, and Rossi :P

And ya, not looking forward to the summer (in my hemisphere) bike-race withdrawal.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby Plasma Man » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:58 pm UTC

charliepanayi wrote:I dislike all the ridiculous amount of adulation he gets from the media here, which just wears me down after a while. He is a very good driver... but he is NOT Senna, Prost and Schumacher reincarnated just yet. Not to mention the way drivers like Alonso are now vilified by the press over here for having the temerity to argue with Hamilton. Granted, Alonso was a petulant git who probably cost himself a title by stupidly getting into his spat with Hamilton, but he's not the demon he's been painted as in the UK and he's a very good driver when all is said and done.


This covers many of my reasons for despising Hamilton. I also dislike the way that he is so media-managed, rarely (if ever) giving an honest reaction to anything. He's also over-aggressive: Aggressiveness in a driver is good, blatant dumbassery such as his start at the Japanese grand prix is bad. Fortunately, being a dumbass cost him the championship last year (driving into a gravel trap in the pitlane - that's not the mark of a great driver) and I hope it will do so again.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby MotorToad » Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:37 pm UTC

New AMA classes.

After months and months of saber rattling and pissing contests, the end result is:
No more Superstock.

For those that don't follow American superbike racing the sanctioning body, which hasn't made an intelligent decision since 1985, got bought out by DMG, or Daytona Motorsports Group. AKA the idiot tardwranglers that split U.S. sportscar racing to bring you the preposterous clown cars that make up the Bland Am series. Their first move was to announce that they were going to run some sort of emasculated "show" based on 600 cc bikes with horsepower limits to save costs. The manufacturers immediately explode into a fury of logic and point out that they're already building nearly identical superbikes for every other series in the world and making different racing bikes just for the U.S. is going to cost a freaking fortune. "Screw you guys, we're going home!" They start saber rattling that they're going to start the US SuperBike series because, well we all know just how freaking marvelous it works when you split a road race series in the U.S.

Anyway, it seems to be over.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby MotorToad » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:02 pm UTC

Not quite a double post (it's been a day or two), so stfu about it. :mrgreen:


I just finished the BBC coverage of the MotoGP race. I was really really looking forward to it, but damn, what a freaking parade! I hate to think it, but the evil dirty tire rule might help this.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby Endless Mike » Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:14 pm UTC

Anyone else follow 24 Hours of LeMons? Jalopnik generally has really good coverage. It's more spectacle than race, but there's genuinely good driving involved. And hell, anything involving $500 shitheaps can't be too bad.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby wst » Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:48 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:Anyone else follow 24 Hours of LeMons? Jalopnik generally has really good coverage. It's more spectacle than race, but there's genuinely good driving involved. And hell, anything involving $500 shitheaps can't be too bad.

We need this over here. Make it £500 shitheaps though. But wooooow.

It reminds me a bit of the Mexican road rally thing for pre-65 cars, but on a closed track and funnier rules. And less free beer.
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby Amarantha » Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:18 pm UTC

Finally watched the last MotoGP - ya, the race was kinda boring. I'm looking forward to the tyre rule myself.

RIP Eurosport coverage :( Dorna Sports can kiss my proverbial; those guys were the best. Next year I shall have to rely on the BBC, or maybe the local wankers if I'm desperate.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby Ieatsoap6 » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:46 am UTC

Endless Mike wrote:Anyone else follow 24 Hours of LeMons? Jalopnik generally has really good coverage. It's more spectacle than race, but there's genuinely good driving involved. And hell, anything involving $500 shitheaps can't be too bad.

I'd never heard of it but dang, that sounds like it'd be really fun to try out. If I had a spare few thousand dollars (car+safety stuff) and could find interested people, I'd totally do that.

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Endless Mike
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby Endless Mike » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:35 pm UTC

wst wrote:
Endless Mike wrote:Anyone else follow 24 Hours of LeMons? Jalopnik generally has really good coverage. It's more spectacle than race, but there's genuinely good driving involved. And hell, anything involving $500 shitheaps can't be too bad.

We need this over here. Make it £500 shitheaps though. But wooooow.

It reminds me a bit of the Mexican road rally thing for pre-65 cars, but on a closed track and funnier rules. And less free beer.

The organizer looked into it, and said that his insurance wouldn't allow for anything outside the US, unfortunately.

Some of the punishments doled out in the most recent race

The Obama Change We Can Believe In Challenge: The teams who got this were given spray paint and such and had to completely change their cars' themes to the approval of the judges.

The McCain Uphill Slog: One team member has to push the car from one end of the pit to the other with the rest of the team sitting on it.

The Lexus Starter Removal Challenge: One of the teams (they post on SA, actually) was driving a Lexus LS(number...I think 400), which has a notoriously difficult to remove starter, since Toyota decided to stick it in the block of the car under the intake and such. Book rate for replacement is around 8 hours. Well, their engine shat out for reasons unrelated to the starter, so they were out, and the judges asked if there was anything they could use the car for, and they mentioned the starter. The punished team had to remove it.

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Pixel
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby Pixel » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:40 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:Some of the punishments doled out in the most recent race


Don't forget the "Chemical Ali" punishment from the Texas race. Fifty different "little tree" air fresheners were hung in the offender's car and they had to drive the rest of the race in a choking cloud of air freshener scents.
Some people have a genuine gift of poetry, a way with words that surpasses beauty and touches the deepest parts of one's soul... and some people, um, thingy.

"Less bite, more wobble"

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wst
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby wst » Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:54 pm UTC

Pixel wrote:
Endless Mike wrote:Some of the punishments doled out in the most recent race


Don't forget the "Chemical Ali" punishment from the Texas race. Fifty different "little tree" air fresheners were hung in the offender's car and they had to drive the rest of the race in a choking cloud of air freshener scents.
The organisers are geniuses. Geniiii?
Anything I said pre-2014 that you want to quote me on, just run it past me to check I still agree with myself.

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cypherspace
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby cypherspace » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:57 pm UTC

Holy motherfuckin' crap. Did anyone watch that race? Did someone say F1 was boring?
"It was like five in the morning and he said he'd show me his hamster"

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wst
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby wst » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:58 pm UTC

cypherspace wrote:Holy motherfuckin' crap. Did anyone watch that race? Did someone say F1 was boring?

YES! I was yelling "Holy shit" at the screen for the last few laps. What happened to Glock?
Anything I said pre-2014 that you want to quote me on, just run it past me to check I still agree with myself.

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cypherspace
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby cypherspace » Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:11 pm UTC

He was still on slicks, and it rained hard enough over the last two laps that he lost all his pace. Fifteen seconds or more he lost! The world championship came down to the last corner. Incredible.
"It was like five in the morning and he said he'd show me his hamster"

michael24easilybored
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Re: The Motorsport Thread (possible spoilers)

Postby michael24easilybored » Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:34 pm UTC

are you sure it was the tyres? The rate that Vettel and Hamilton passed him on the second last corner looked as if he was suffering some kind of engine problem. I don't think it was raining hard enough at that point to make the inters suddenly become great, after all Hamilton didn't take Vettel (who was also on the slicks)

can I just say "oh wowwowowowowowowowowo!!! etc" that was fucking amazing


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