best way to store matter on a large scale

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best way to store matter on a large scale

Postby >-) » Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:14 am UTC

as part of a project to delay heat death, suppose we've dissasembled every single star in the observable universe. by the way, i did the math and it would take a star like the sun 10^8 years to output enough energy to pay for it's dissasembly.

what is the most energy and material efficient way of storing a vast amount of hydrogen and helium gas without allowing it to collapse into a star?

edit: not sure if this should have been posted in fictional science

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Eebster the Great
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Re: best way to store matter on a large scale

Postby Eebster the Great » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:31 am UTC

Surely if you want to delay heat death, the real question is how to maximize the computational value of every nat of entropy.

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Re: best way to store matter on a large scale

Postby Minstrel » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:47 am UTC

I don't have a direct answer, but I'm curious what the plan is. Are we putting hydrogen and helium into cold storage and then making one star at a time, just enough to keep the species going? Or are we skipping stars altogether in favor of fusing it in reactors? Something else?

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Re: best way to store matter on a large scale

Postby >-) » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:56 am UTC

Not so sure about the bigger plan but at least in the short term, it would be a very good idea to stop the wasteful "burning" of hydrogen on a cosmic scale. After that, power production can proceed in a careful, efficient manner, whether that is controlled fusion or dyson sphere

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Re: best way to store matter on a large scale

Postby morriswalters » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:15 am UTC

Stars are what you get when you store hydrogen.

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Re: best way to store matter on a large scale

Postby speising » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:36 am UTC

put it all into a giant black hole.
Bonus: you don't even have to disassemble the stars first.

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Re: best way to store matter on a large scale

Postby >-) » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:27 pm UTC

Well both putting it into a star and putting it into a black hole rather defeats the point of the exercise, which is to store hydrogen for later use.

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Re: best way to store matter on a large scale

Postby morriswalters » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:35 pm UTC

Thermodynamics ate your lunch. Early on in R3 it might have been where you evidently want to put it.

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Re: best way to store matter on a large scale

Postby speising » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:39 pm UTC

>-) wrote:Well both putting it into a star and putting it into a black hole rather defeats the point of the exercise, which is to store hydrogen for later use.

You can use the hawking radiation. Granted, it will be a rather slow trickle, but you are playing the long game, don't you?

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Re: best way to store matter on a large scale

Postby >-) » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:59 pm UTC

speising wrote:You can use the hawking radiation.


wouldn't the vast majority of the hawking radiation be emitted at a temperature much lower than the CMB, making it useless for power production?

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Re: best way to store matter on a large scale

Postby speising » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:03 pm UTC

As long as there is CMB, you can use it and the BH's shadow to gain energy. And i'm not sure how long your cosmic remodelling project would take. The CMB will probably be considerably cooler than today by the time you're done.

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Re: best way to store matter on a large scale

Postby >-) » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:17 pm UTC

i don't know enough about thermodynamics to be sure -- is the energy produced by the temperature difference between the black hole and the CMB equivalent to the amount of energy that would've been produced by fusing all that hydrogen? even with a "quickly" cooling CMB? (quickly relative to BH lifespan)

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Re: best way to store matter on a large scale

Postby Xanthir » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:27 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:
Stars are what you get when you store hydrogen.

In the same sense that a runaway reaction is what you get when you store enriched uranium: only if you're fucking it up.

If you store hydrogen in sufficiently small clumps, you don't get uncontrolled ignition. That's probably all you need to do - swish it around sufficiently in space. We already have plenty of gas clouds, you just need to keep it from clumping sufficiently. Give it a bit of a charge and you can use magnetic manipulation to do large-scale movement.

(After all, the best use of all that hydrogen is probably waiting for heat death and feeding it to black holes.)
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Re: best way to store matter on a large scale

Postby morriswalters » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:55 pm UTC

Xanthir wrote:If you store hydrogen in sufficiently small clumps, you don't get uncontrolled ignition.
Yes, I know.


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