PI - Invention or Discovery

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doogly
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Re: PI - Invention or Discovery

Postby doogly » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:57 pm UTC

A religion is much broader, and may include superstitions. Usually though a superstition lacks structure, and is actually highlighted by that very lack. Why is breaking a mirror seven years of bad luck? No reason it totally just is. There is no larger narrative this thing needs, this just sort of is. This is just rules of luck. Why is breaking the Sabbath a sin? Aight sit down you gonna get some Religion splainin at you.
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Pfhorrest
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Re: PI - Invention or Discovery

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:08 pm UTC

Doogly, is not the reason a Buddhist thinks Buddhism a discovery and you think it an invention just that the Buddhist thinks Buddhism is true and you don’t?
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danlovy
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Re: PI - Invention or Discovery

Postby danlovy » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:21 pm UTC

doogly wrote:A religion is much broader, and may include superstitions. Usually though a superstition lacks structure, and is actually highlighted by that very lack. Why is breaking a mirror seven years of bad luck? No reason it totally just is. There is no larger narrative this thing needs, this just sort of is. This is just rules of luck. Why is breaking the Sabbath a sin? Aight sit down you gonna get some Religion splainin at you.


So are superstitions tenets of religion?

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doogly
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Re: PI - Invention or Discovery

Postby doogly » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:04 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Doogly, is not the reason a Buddhist thinks Buddhism a discovery and you think it an invention just that the Buddhist thinks Buddhism is true and you don’t?

Oh, sure. I see what you mean, yeah.
danlovy wrote:So are superstitions tenets of religion?

I think a superstition is more narrow and distinct. It is an if->then without a larger context or narrative such as religion.
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Eebster the Great
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Re: PI - Invention or Discovery

Postby Eebster the Great » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:34 pm UTC

Religion is like a theory, with superstitions one example of the hypotheses it contains. (Religion also contains lots of other things besides superstitions of course.)

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Re: PI - Invention or Discovery

Postby danlovy » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:20 pm UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:Religion is like a theory, with superstitions one example of the hypotheses it contains. (Religion also contains lots of other things besides superstitions of course.)


Is a theory or like a theory? Really good theories take facts and connect them in a way that create useful models for understanding (plate tectonics, germ theory, quantum theory, and yes, gulp, evolutionary theory). PI, whether invention or discovery does really fine job of bringing understanding to a geometric world, real or abstract. Religion often will cloak itself in the nomenclature of science (theories, evidence, falsification etc.) but it is a very thin cloak at best.

Discussing religion in the context of science is most often a rabbit hole from which forum posters never emerge.

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Eebster the Great
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Re: PI - Invention or Discovery

Postby Eebster the Great » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:59 pm UTC

It's like a theory. I was drawing an analogy. But either way, note that not every theory is a good theory or a scientific theory. I think it is reasonable to say there are theories of astrology (fields of study which attempt to understand our behavior and fate in terms of positions of astronomical bodies using specific rules), even if the theories are pretty poor in predictive ability.

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Re: PI - Invention or Discovery

Postby Bloopy » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:39 am UTC

danlovy wrote:I propose a third option, neither.

Discovery and invention simply split unimportant hairs for semantic and legal purposes.

Chimpanzees have been shown to take blades of grass, push them into ant hills and pull out delicious ants. Did it discover or invent this? Doesn't matter, it is a product of thought.

Is all discovery and invention the product of thought? The light bulb can be viewed as both invention (combining materials to accomplish a goal) and discovery (the properties of certain materials, when combined appropriately) has a new property - light.

Both occur in the course of inventing something, but at different stages. Discovery is more like learning something. The act of choosing to combine the particular materials is a product of thought, but learning that the 3,001st combination attempted works as desired is a discovery. That knowledge can then be contemplated to produce more thoughts and refine the invention.

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Re: PI - Invention or Discovery

Postby danlovy » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:46 pm UTC

So I am playing deity -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6fmkZW9JCM

by creating creatures and the only world they will ever know. If this project continues, I may qualify as my own religion.


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