HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

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Vytron
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby Vytron » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:30 am UTC

Yeah, would really have liked to see how Lawsome would have modded it.

What Camo did relies on this: Dead hexes still carry out their actions, so here, Camo's wizard was killed, but he still carried out its action, which was pushing. However, Camo's 2 grabbed W's corpse before that, so his push carried Camo's 3 along.

Whether that actually happened remains to be seen, is it consistent with the rules? It seems it's what Camo expected to happen.

Also, what happens when two different players kill the same hex?

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dudiobugtron
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby dudiobugtron » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:53 am UTC

Vytron wrote:What Camo did relies on this: Dead hexes still carry out their actions, so here, Camo's wizard was killed, but he still carried out its action, which was pushing. However, Camo's 2 grabbed W's corpse before that, so his push carried Camo's 3 along.

Whether that actually happened remains to be seen, is it consistent with the rules? It seems it's what Camo expected to happen.

I don't actually know if the rules are particularly robust regarding dead hexes being grabbed, because that wasn't a possibility before the introduction of Ninjas.

Precedent is pretty clear with how dead hexes react to pushes, though, and so I'd assumed that dead hexes count as an empty square for the purposes of grabs, like they do with pushes. So you can use your ninja to clear a space for you to grab someone across, for eg. It doesn't really make sense that a dead hex can be grabbed but not pushed, and it certainly makes no sense if a dead hex can be grabbed but can't block a grab.

So, I think that Camo's W shouldn't have been able to be grabbed. (Of course, had camo known this, he almost certainly would have submitted different moves!)

Also, what happens when two different players kill the same hex?

Lawsome's rule was that both players get a kill, and the dead hex's player loses 2 points. If you look at the posts around the start of this game, you will find it. I don't know if it has had an impact on the game before now though.

----
Re: benneh: hexes respawn at the end of the turn they die in, for use next turn.
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patzer
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby patzer » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:22 pm UTC

I don't see why dead hexes shouldn't be able to be grabbed. The main issue is with the kill points- in previous games, both players would get one point each for killing the same hex, which is fair, but in this game the number of deaths is also relevant, and I don't think it's fair for a player to lose 2 points when 1 of their hexes is killed. Therefore I agree with Vytron's decision, although I may be biased!
also, benneh should have -3.5 and I should have +7 points.

moves:
Spoiler:
W push up
N attack up
1 defend down
2 attack down-left
3 move down-left
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands. –Douglas Adams

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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby dudiobugtron » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:29 pm UTC

patzer wrote:I don't see why dead hexes shouldn't be able to be grabbed.

For the reasons I explained above!
Currently, dead hexes don't have a physical presence. They can't be pushed, and they can't block movement.
If you allow them to be grabbed, then they can block grabs too. This is inconsistent with the way they are used for pushes and movement.

Why can't dead hexes be pushed? Whatever answer you give, the same answer should apply to grabs.
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patzer
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby patzer » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:09 pm UTC

dudiobugtron wrote:
patzer wrote:I don't see why dead hexes shouldn't be able to be grabbed.

For the reasons I explained above!
Currently, dead hexes don't have a physical presence. They can't be pushed, and they can't block movement.
If you allow them to be grabbed, then they can block grabs too. This is inconsistent with the way they are used for pushes and movement.

Why can't dead hexes be pushed? Whatever answer you give, the same answer should apply to grabs.

I see your argument now, and I agree that the dead hex shouldn't have been grabbed.
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands. –Douglas Adams

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thecamoninja
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby thecamoninja » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:47 am UTC

I was just operating under the assumption that because dead hexes still carry out actions, they're still essentially "there" on the board even after being killed, and only despawn at the end of the round.
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Vytron
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby Vytron » Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:02 am UTC

Okay, so here's a retcon with current ruling:

- Just like dead hexes can't be pushed, and can't be used to block other hexes, they can't be pulled/grabbed.

So, in this case, Camo's W pushed on the place where it was on death :-/

Turn 27 Redux:

Image
http://i.imgur.com/YcnYbFQ.png

NOTE: Patzer is on 7 points, please ignore that 8.

Also, just noticed that abload was trippling the size of the images :shock: - sorry for the wasted bandwidth, I'm switching to imgur (which requires 3 more clicks per upload, *sigh*)

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dudiobugtron
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby dudiobugtron » Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:45 am UTC

thecamoninja wrote:I was just operating under the assumption that because dead hexes still carry out actions, they're still essentially "there" on the board even after being killed, and only despawn at the end of the round.

I think it's a reasonable assumption, and I certainly think it's a bit unfair that some of your moves were wasted just because the rules were unclear. (A similar thing happened to me earlier, though, where I ended up doing a useless move because I misunderstood the rules, so I don't feel too sorry for you. ;) )
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benneh
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby benneh » Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:11 pm UTC

So is this the official ruling on the situation? If so, I'll submit my next moves. Otherwise, ignore these, I guess.

moves:
Spoiler:
N wait patiently
W push up-right
1 move up-right
2 attack up-right
3 grab down

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dudiobugtron
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby dudiobugtron » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:14 pm UTC

I propose we try to find a replacement for Eomund.

Moves:
Spoiler:
2 - move down-right
3 - move down-right
W - move down-right
1 - relax
N - ninja relax
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Elmach
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby Elmach » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:39 pm UTC

Replacing Eumrund.

Moves:
Spoiler:
W: push downright
1 attack down
2 attack downeight
3 contemplate life
n move upruight

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Vytron
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby Vytron » Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:58 pm UTC

Welcome to the game Elmach! Wow! Quickest replacement ever! 8-)

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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby Vytron » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:48 pm UTC

Sending reminder PM to thecamoninja, deadline is 24 hours.

Moves:
Spoiler:
3 - Attack Down
1 - Move UP-Left
W - Move UP-Left

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Vytron
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby Vytron » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:50 pm UTC

Updated moves
Spoiler:
3 - Attack Down
1 - Move UP-Left
W - Move UP-Left
N - Attack UP

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patzer
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby patzer » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:34 pm UTC

updated moves:
Spoiler:
W push up
N attack up
1 move down
2 attack down-left
3 move down-left
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands. –Douglas Adams

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Vytron
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby Vytron » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:46 am UTC

The camoninja didn't send moves.

Turn 28:
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Last edited by Vytron on Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:55 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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patzer
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby patzer » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:53 am UTC

My N was killed and I had 7 points prior to this turn; I should have 8 points. benneh had one kill and no deaths; he should have -2 points.
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands. –Douglas Adams

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Vytron
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby Vytron » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:56 am UTC

Fix'd.

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benneh
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby benneh » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:35 am UTC

moves:
Spoiler:
N move down-right
W move up-right
1 attack down-right
2 move up-right
3 move up-right

Elmach
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby Elmach » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:02 pm UTC

moves
Spoiler:
W push downright
N grab downright
1 move downright
2 attack downright
3 grab upright

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Vytron
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby Vytron » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:56 am UTC

Moves
Spoiler:
N - Move Up
3 - Move Down
2 - Move Down
W - Push UL
1 - Move UL


Still waiting for thecamoninja, patzer and dudiobugtron.

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patzer
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby patzer » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:43 pm UTC

Moves

Spoiler:
W push up
N move up
1 attack up-left
2 move up-left
3 move up-left
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands. –Douglas Adams

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dudiobugtron
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby dudiobugtron » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:55 pm UTC

Moves:
Spoiler:
N - grab down-right
W - push down-right
2 - attack down-left
3 - attack down-right
1 - move down
Image

Elmach
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby Elmach » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:38 pm UTC

will we need a replacement for camo too?

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thecamoninja
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby thecamoninja » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:08 am UTC

No no I'm here, I'm just very busy for a few days. Stand by.
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Vytron
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby Vytron » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:06 am UTC

Deadline has been set to 24 hours.

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thecamoninja
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby thecamoninja » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:54 am UTC

moves
Spoiler:
1 no action
2 move down
3 move up
N no action
W move up-left
Formerly known as Camoninja
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Vytron
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby Vytron » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:48 am UTC

Turn 29:
Image

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benneh
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby benneh » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:02 pm UTC

moves:
Spoiler:
N move up-right
W move up-right
1 attack down-right
2 do nothing
3 do nothing

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patzer
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby patzer » Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:57 pm UTC

moves:

Spoiler:
W push up
N move down-left
1 defend up-left
2 attack down-left
3 move down
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands. –Douglas Adams

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thecamoninja
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby thecamoninja » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:16 am UTC

I currently have no idea why I submitted the moves I did for that round, but I am quite certain they made sense in some sort of alternate reality.
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Vytron
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby Vytron » Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:31 am UTC

Moves
Spoiler:
N - Move DR
1 - Attack UP
W - Attack UL
3 - Move DL
2 - Move DL


Still waiting for dudio, thecamoninja, Elmach.

Deadline is 48 hours (weekend)

Elmach
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby Elmach » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:22 am UTC

If I kill my own unit, I neither gain or lose any points, correct? (Err, I gain a death and gain a kill, either way it evens it out)

assuming that is correct

Spoiler:
W Push downright
N grab upright
1 attack downright
2 attack down
3 grab upright

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patzer
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby patzer » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:03 am UTC

Elmach wrote:If I kill my own unit, I neither gain or lose any points, correct? (Err, I gain a death and gain a kill, either way it evens it out)


No, this game you can't kill your own hexes. In other games it has been possible, but Lawsome said around move 10 in this game that he wasn't going to let people kill their own hexes.
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family Anatidae on our hands. –Douglas Adams

Elmach
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby Elmach » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:07 am UTC

That works even better.

Can we send @player spoilers to other people?

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Vytron
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby Vytron » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:09 am UTC

Yes, you can send @Player spoilers to other people, the mod can't read those spoilers.

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dudiobugtron
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby dudiobugtron » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:52 pm UTC

Moves:
Spoiler:
2 - attack down-left
1 - attack down
3 - move down-right
N and W - discuss strategy
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Vytron
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby Vytron » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:26 am UTC

Still waiting for thecamoninja, sending reminder PM.

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thecamoninja
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby thecamoninja » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:44 am UTC

moves
Spoiler:
1 attack down
2 move down
3 move up-left
N move down-lwft
W push up-left
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Vytron
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Re: HEXATTACK (Now starting!)

Postby Vytron » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:52 am UTC



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