Double Post

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flicky1991
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Re: Double Post

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:49 am UTC

<3
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Re: Double Post

Postby addams » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:54 am UTC

Seven wrote::D
A Happy Seven is Home to roost.
Roost well, Seven.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Double Post

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:02 am UTC

*pecks addams*
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Re: Double Post

Postby Seven » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:31 am UTC

Nite nite.

Have fun storming the fora...

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Re: Double Post

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:51 am UTC

But I have to work!
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Re: Double Post

Postby addams » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:57 am UTC

flicky1991 wrote:*pecks addams*
Blocks Bird.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Double Post

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:57 am UTC

*work plop*
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Re: Double Post

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:58 am UTC

Oh, I was blocked.
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Re: Double Post

Postby addams » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:09 am UTC

You taught me to nick photos.
I shall never fear Page Topper.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Double Post

Postby addams » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:16 am UTC

Night-Night, to Me!
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Double Post

Postby addams » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:45 am UTC

Pre-Ling!
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Double Post

Postby Sableagle » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:41 am UTC

You know what else is near the Golden Gate Bridge?

Bay Bridge Gladiator.png


That 9.83m wingspan made that a lot easier than it was with the Hurricane's 12.2m wingspan.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: Double Post

Postby Sableagle » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:00 pm UTC

Width West: 5 traffic lanes totaling 57.5 ft (17.5 m)


Quite tight.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: Double Post

Postby addams » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:03 pm UTC

The Oakland Bay Bridge?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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flicky1991
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Re: Double Post

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:21 pm UTC

Hi!
any pronouns
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flicky1991
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Re: Double Post

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:52 pm UTC

*plop*
any pronouns
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Re: Double Post

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:58 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:*plop*
any pronouns
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Re: Double Post

Postby addams » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:11 pm UTC

Daylight...
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Double Post

Postby heuristically_alone » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:34 pm UTC

addams wrote:Thank you, Heury.
So...You count, now?
Have you always counted?

Yea, just took a break for awhile.
Bow gifted by adnapemit.

We'll win, but not everyone will get out

:idea: = Surprised Cyclops

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Re: Double Post

Postby Sableagle » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:58 pm UTC

addams wrote:The Oakland Bay Bridge?

Indeed.
Bay Bridge Gladiator flyby half.gif
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: Double Post

Postby Seven » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:00 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:You know what else is near the Golden Gate Bridge?

Bay Bridge Gladiator.png

That 9.83m wingspan made that a lot easier than it was with the Hurricane's 12.2m wingspan.

Ooohhhhh!!! I need to learn to fly.

What kind of computer do you use for this simulation (is it a laptop)? And what is the game/program called?

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Re: Double Post

Postby Seven » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:01 pm UTC

I travel light.

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Re: Double Post

Postby Seven » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:55 pm UTC

8-)

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Re: Double Post

Postby addams » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:02 pm UTC

Yey!!
Seven is Up!

She sits with her Coffee and writes to us.
Lucky, Lucky us. (i still miss Sluggy.)

You posters wriggle into my heart.
Your absence is felt. Please stay.
Spoiler:
Yes. Even Heury...
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Seven
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Re: Double Post

Postby Seven » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:15 pm UTC

:D :D :D

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Re: Double Post

Postby Seven » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:16 pm UTC

addams wrote:Yey!!
Seven is Up!

She sits with her Coffee and writes to us.

It's exactly what I'm doing!

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Re: Double Post

Postby Seven » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:18 pm UTC


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Re: Double Post

Postby Sableagle » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:47 pm UTC

Computer's built by me back in 2005 out of pieces bought online at the kink in the price curve (where you suddenly go from paying a little extra for a lot more to paying a lot extra for a little more).

Software is available for free from SourceForge, and is called FlightGear.

Spoiler:
http://home.flightgear.org/

FlightGear is known to run on Windows, Linux, Mac OS-X, FreeBSD, Solaris, and IRIX platforms allowing the user run on their platform of preference.

The result is a simulator with moderate hardware requirements to run at smooth frame rates. You can be reasonably happy on a $500-1000 (USD) machine (possibly even less if you are careful) and don’t necessarily need $3000 (USD) worth of new hardware like you do with the many of the newest games.

That said, the more hardware you throw at FlightGear, the better it looks and runs, so don’t feel like you have to chuck your expensive new hardware if you just purchased it.


It probably flies best with an actual joystick and rudder pedals, which you can buy and plug into a computer, but I was flying it on keyboard only for a while until the "random tip" on the laoding screen told me which key to press to fly by mouse (Tab, by the way). Flying by mouse gives finer control and lets you do more things at once.

I've flown a few different things so far and I would say the Hurricane is probably the easiest to fly. The Hurricane and Lancaster being indestructible helps immensely when you make mistakes. Dive too fast in the Cessna, trying to go under a bridge with the throttle wide open, and you'll break the wings. We learned very soon that you couldn't break a Hurricane. The Hurricane's also got the power to climb hard. If you start flitting around Alpine valleys and find yourself going up something that looks like this ...

Image

... with a Hurricane you can probably get away with pushing the throttle fully open and hauling back on the stick to climb over that. With the Cessna you'd have to do a very impressive tight, level turn and fly back down that valley. The Lancaster's multi-engined. Official engine controls are !@#$ to select engines 1 to 4 individually and ~ to select all at once, which may be fine on a US keyboard where those are shift and the first five keys of the top row but is a bit of a pain on a UK keyboard that goes `¬ 1! 2" 3£ 4$ 5% 6^ along the top and ;: '@ #~ next to enter.

If you're trying to land, get a very long run at it, and try to approach so that you can see two white and two red lights beside the runway (on many strips) or one set of red lights above one set of white lights (on some others), indicating correct glidepath. Come in as slowly as it'll fly (find this out a long way up where you can get away with being wrong) with wheels and flaps down, and try to level up at the last moment something like this. Due to the limited "feel" for yaw and response speed of the rudder if you're flying by keyboard, I really recommend dropping to half speed (shift-A) for take-off and landing to buy yourself a chance of holding the thing straight, then going back to full speed (A) to fly around.

On the Cessna and Lancaster, you can raise landing gear with G and lower it with shift-G but that won't do anything on the Hurricane. You have to use the little red lever in the bottom right. Tab to turn your mouse into a clicker and click top left to raise gear, bottom left to lower it, top right to raise flaps, bottom right to lower them and central to return that stick to neutral once it's done what you want, then tab back to using mouse to fly. There are three mouse modes. The other one is lookaround. With numlock off, shift and keypad 8 is "look straight ahead," shift and keypad 4 and 6 are "look left" and "look right" and from either of those shift and keypad 2 is "look backwards." You still have to use the mouse to decide how far up or down to look, though. I've decided for the Hurricane it's good to have the throttle and hydraulics on-screen, but you can look further up if you prefer. You can also zoom in and out with X and shift-X to get the view angle you want.

For the Hurricane:
Bottom left of instrument panel, switch both magnetos on.
Behind there, set throttle to 30%.
On the right, under the instrument panel and in front of the hydraulics, press the fuel pump primer five times.
Left of the magneto switches, left-hand button is the starter. Press it until the engine catches.
If it doesn't start, try flicking magnetos off and on again or closing the throttle, turnign the engine over a few times, opening to 30% again, repriming the engine and pressing the starter again. It can be finicky.
Reach back and close the canopy.
Release the parking brake.
Use the rudder to keep yourself going straight until you're above 100 mph.
Ease back on the stick to lift the nose.
Wait to come "unstuck" from the ground (it'll suddenly get a bit quieter).
Raise gear.
Fly a bit.
When the red lights come on indicating gear locked up, set hydraulics to neutral.
Fly.
30% throttle is enough for most things. 100% will go faster and drain the fuel tanks faster.
If you go below 30% throttle with the gear up, a klaxon will sound and it will not shut up until you open the throttle again or lower your undercarriage.

For the Robinson R22 Beta:
Check full freedom of movement in cyclic, collective and yaw controls.
Open clutch guard.
Check rotor clutch disengaged.
Turn on master battery.
Turn on strobe.
Check there's nobody around the aircraft.
Turn key to start engine.
Engage rotor clutch.
Close clutch guard.
Turn on alternator.
Turn on navigation lights.
Wait for rotor speed indicator to get up into the green. (Instrument in top right with one needle from each side and a little green band near the top of the coloured strips between them. Engine revs on left, rotor revs on right. R22B has automatic throttle, so you don't need to worry about that part.)
For some reason, they went with Page Down (normally throttle down i.e. pull the throttle levers back) to increase collective pitch (pull the lever up) and increase lift and Page Up (normally throttle up i.e. push the throttle levers forwards) to decrease collective pitch (push the lever down) and decrease lift.
Helicopters do not take kindly to being rolled upside-down.
Trying to pull up too hard too suddenly can cause a "vortex ring state" in which you'll fall out of the sky.
Flying too near a cliff on one side can cause "asymmetric recirculation," reducing the amount of lift you get on that side, causing the helicopter to tip that way and fly into the cliff.
Flying very low produces "ground effect," which is extra lift. In ground effect, the collective pitch control (that lever between the seats) controls your height above the ground. Out of ground effect, it controls how fast you're going up or down.
Helicopters also gain lift by travelling forwards. A heavily-laden helicopter can lift just off the ground, get moving along the runway to build transitional lift and use that to gain height when it wouldn't be able to lift far vertically.
If you fly forwards at high speed, the air cushion (like a hovercraft without a skirt) of ground effect gets left behind and you fall off the front of it and go crunch. This is called "flying out of ground effect."
Because you rely on whirling the rotor blades around to produce lift and the blades are inherently going forwards on one side and backwards on the other, the faster you go forwards the more lift you get on one side and the less you get on the other, unless you're flying this:

Image

You can counter this by moving the cyclic pitch control (the stick) to one side as you accelerate ... up to a point. As a wing slows down, you can maintain lift by increasing its angle of attack, which is exactly what you're doing by moving the stick sideways ... up to a point. That point is when the angle of attack goes past 15° and the wing stalls. In a fixed-wing aircraft, a stall is a sinking feeling and the nose dropping, and you can recover by easing the nose down, gliding a bit and increasing throttle (unless you're out of fuel). In a helicopter, flying too fast results in "retreating blade stall," which is a stall on one side only. Suddenly you have no lift on the left side, roll over and fall out of the sky like a headshot duck. You do not recover from this in an R22B.
Good #####ng luck!
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: Double Post

Postby Sableagle » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:49 pm UTC

You could also try IL-2 Sturmovik.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: Double Post

Postby addams » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:14 pm UTC

Or; Not.
Play with us.

We are almost as good as a machine.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Double Post

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:19 pm UTC

Hi. <3
any pronouns
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Re: Double Post

Postby addams » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:51 pm UTC

Tickles Birdie....
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
addams
Posts: 9836
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Double Post

Postby addams » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:14 pm UTC

Me!
I win!
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
heuristically_alone
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Re: Double Post

Postby heuristically_alone » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:46 pm UTC

Who comes in second?
Bow gifted by adnapemit.

We'll win, but not everyone will get out

:idea: = Surprised Cyclops

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Re: Double Post

Postby addams » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:56 pm UTC

Apparently, you do.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
Seven
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Posts: 1964
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Re: Double Post

Postby Seven » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:21 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:Computer's built by me back in 2005 out of pieces bought online at the kink in the price curve (where you suddenly go from paying a little extra for a lot more to paying a lot extra for a little more).

Software is available for free from SourceForge, and is called FlightGear.

Spoiler:
http://home.flightgear.org/

FlightGear is known to run on Windows, Linux, Mac OS-X, FreeBSD, Solaris, and IRIX platforms allowing the user run on their platform of preference.

The result is a simulator with moderate hardware requirements to run at smooth frame rates. You can be reasonably happy on a $500-1000 (USD) machine (possibly even less if you are careful) and don’t necessarily need $3000 (USD) worth of new hardware like you do with the many of the newest games.

That said, the more hardware you throw at FlightGear, the better it looks and runs, so don’t feel like you have to chuck your expensive new hardware if you just purchased it.


It probably flies best with an actual joystick and rudder pedals, which you can buy and plug into a computer, but I was flying it on keyboard only for a while until the "random tip" on the laoding screen told me which key to press to fly by mouse (Tab, by the way). Flying by mouse gives finer control and lets you do more things at once.

I've flown a few different things so far and I would say the Hurricane is probably the easiest to fly. The Hurricane and Lancaster being indestructible helps immensely when you make mistakes. Dive too fast in the Cessna, trying to go under a bridge with the throttle wide open, and you'll break the wings. We learned very soon that you couldn't break a Hurricane. The Hurricane's also got the power to climb hard. If you start flitting around Alpine valleys and find yourself going up something that looks like this ...

Image

... with a Hurricane you can probably get away with pushing the throttle fully open and hauling back on the stick to climb over that. With the Cessna you'd have to do a very impressive tight, level turn and fly back down that valley. The Lancaster's multi-engined. Official engine controls are !@#$ to select engines 1 to 4 individually and ~ to select all at once, which may be fine on a US keyboard where those are shift and the first five keys of the top row but is a bit of a pain on a UK keyboard that goes `¬ 1! 2" 3£ 4$ 5% 6^ along the top and ;: '@ #~ next to enter.

If you're trying to land, get a very long run at it, and try to approach so that you can see two white and two red lights beside the runway (on many strips) or one set of red lights above one set of white lights (on some others), indicating correct glidepath. Come in as slowly as it'll fly (find this out a long way up where you can get away with being wrong) with wheels and flaps down, and try to level up at the last moment something like this. Due to the limited "feel" for yaw and response speed of the rudder if you're flying by keyboard, I really recommend dropping to half speed (shift-A) for take-off and landing to buy yourself a chance of holding the thing straight, then going back to full speed (A) to fly around.

On the Cessna and Lancaster, you can raise landing gear with G and lower it with shift-G but that won't do anything on the Hurricane. You have to use the little red lever in the bottom right. Tab to turn your mouse into a clicker and click top left to raise gear, bottom left to lower it, top right to raise flaps, bottom right to lower them and central to return that stick to neutral once it's done what you want, then tab back to using mouse to fly. There are three mouse modes. The other one is lookaround. With numlock off, shift and keypad 8 is "look straight ahead," shift and keypad 4 and 6 are "look left" and "look right" and from either of those shift and keypad 2 is "look backwards." You still have to use the mouse to decide how far up or down to look, though. I've decided for the Hurricane it's good to have the throttle and hydraulics on-screen, but you can look further up if you prefer. You can also zoom in and out with X and shift-X to get the view angle you want.

For the Hurricane:
Bottom left of instrument panel, switch both magnetos on.
Behind there, set throttle to 30%.
On the right, under the instrument panel and in front of the hydraulics, press the fuel pump primer five times.
Left of the magneto switches, left-hand button is the starter. Press it until the engine catches.
If it doesn't start, try flicking magnetos off and on again or closing the throttle, turnign the engine over a few times, opening to 30% again, repriming the engine and pressing the starter again. It can be finicky.
Reach back and close the canopy.
Release the parking brake.
Use the rudder to keep yourself going straight until you're above 100 mph.
Ease back on the stick to lift the nose.
Wait to come "unstuck" from the ground (it'll suddenly get a bit quieter).
Raise gear.
Fly a bit.
When the red lights come on indicating gear locked up, set hydraulics to neutral.
Fly.
30% throttle is enough for most things. 100% will go faster and drain the fuel tanks faster.
If you go below 30% throttle with the gear up, a klaxon will sound and it will not shut up until you open the throttle again or lower your undercarriage.

For the Robinson R22 Beta:
Check full freedom of movement in cyclic, collective and yaw controls.
Open clutch guard.
Check rotor clutch disengaged.
Turn on master battery.
Turn on strobe.
Check there's nobody around the aircraft.
Turn key to start engine.
Engage rotor clutch.
Close clutch guard.
Turn on alternator.
Turn on navigation lights.
Wait for rotor speed indicator to get up into the green. (Instrument in top right with one needle from each side and a little green band near the top of the coloured strips between them. Engine revs on left, rotor revs on right. R22B has automatic throttle, so you don't need to worry about that part.)
For some reason, they went with Page Down (normally throttle down i.e. pull the throttle levers back) to increase collective pitch (pull the lever up) and increase lift and Page Up (normally throttle up i.e. push the throttle levers forwards) to decrease collective pitch (push the lever down) and decrease lift.
Helicopters do not take kindly to being rolled upside-down.
Trying to pull up too hard too suddenly can cause a "vortex ring state" in which you'll fall out of the sky.
Flying too near a cliff on one side can cause "asymmetric recirculation," reducing the amount of lift you get on that side, causing the helicopter to tip that way and fly into the cliff.
Flying very low produces "ground effect," which is extra lift. In ground effect, the collective pitch control (that lever between the seats) controls your height above the ground. Out of ground effect, it controls how fast you're going up or down.
Helicopters also gain lift by travelling forwards. A heavily-laden helicopter can lift just off the ground, get moving along the runway to build transitional lift and use that to gain height when it wouldn't be able to lift far vertically.
If you fly forwards at high speed, the air cushion (like a hovercraft without a skirt) of ground effect gets left behind and you fall off the front of it and go crunch. This is called "flying out of ground effect."
Because you rely on whirling the rotor blades around to produce lift and the blades are inherently going forwards on one side and backwards on the other, the faster you go forwards the more lift you get on one side and the less you get on the other, unless you're flying this:

Image

You can counter this by moving the cyclic pitch control (the stick) to one side as you accelerate ... up to a point. As a wing slows down, you can maintain lift by increasing its angle of attack, which is exactly what you're doing by moving the stick sideways ... up to a point. That point is when the angle of attack goes past 15° and the wing stalls. In a fixed-wing aircraft, a stall is a sinking feeling and the nose dropping, and you can recover by easing the nose down, gliding a bit and increasing throttle (unless you're out of fuel). In a helicopter, flying too fast results in "retreating blade stall," which is a stall on one side only. Suddenly you have no lift on the left side, roll over and fall out of the sky like a headshot duck. You do not recover from this in an R22B.
Good #####ng luck!

HOLY COW!!!! Thanks for all the good info!!! I've bookmarked this post so I can refer back to it.

....someday I'll start a new hobby....

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flicky1991
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Re: Double Post

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:26 pm UTC

addams wrote:Tickles Birdie....
Teehee.
any pronouns
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Re: Double Post

Postby heuristically_alone » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:01 pm UTC

*victory dance*
Bow gifted by adnapemit.

We'll win, but not everyone will get out

:idea: = Surprised Cyclops

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flicky1991
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Re: Double Post

Postby flicky1991 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:03 pm UTC

*tickles heury*
any pronouns
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Re: Double Post

Postby addams » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:04 pm UTC

*Tickles Heury*
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.


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