Search found 3607 matches

by elasto
Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:32 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: Police misbehavior thread
Replies: 6474
Views: 977298

Re: Police misbehavior thread

You are confusing two distinct issues. She wasn't arrested for not identifying herself; she was arrested for obstruction, basically for interfering with a lawful search of a suspect. And what you seem to be missing is that none of us are saying the police were not allowed to arrest her for handing ...
by elasto
Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:41 am UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: Police misbehavior thread
Replies: 6474
Views: 977298

Re: Police misbehavior thread

The UK normally prides itself on minimal possible force and escalating as little as possible, with "policing by consent" being the watchword. Arresting her seems unnecessary. Assuming she argued rationally prior to her arrest, it should have been clear it was passive resistance rather than...
by elasto
Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:43 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

Automation has been claimed to devalue labor for many generations now, but it's never actually happened. If the fundamental reason we need to change society rests on a prediction, you might want to refine the accuracy of it a bit. Better than the level at which apocalyptic christian sorts predict t...
by elasto
Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:28 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

Consider the degenerate case where you squish the income distribution completely . You have a 100% income tax rate for all income above the UBI,and everyone receives the same UBI, so everyone has the same income. The reason that's bad is that it destroys all personal financial incentive to earn inc...
by elasto
Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:24 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

Affordable housing just happens to be a good example of this sort of market. As the lower end of the income spectrum gets more money, this housing grows less affordable, prompting them to seek additional money in pursuit of it, and a higher rate of UBI to keep up with the inflation they experience....
by elasto
Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:58 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: Judea Pearl's Critism of Machine Learning
Replies: 17
Views: 5220

Re: Judea Pearl's Critism of Machine Learning

After all, checking all of the possibilities yields strictly better results than statistical analysis, but exhaustive searches are often effectively impossible. There may be situations were making and remembering causal relationships reaches the answer faster or is able to search deeper into the po...
by elasto
Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:13 pm UTC
Forum: Mathematics
Topic: "Generalized" polygons?
Replies: 10
Views: 1605

Re: "Generalized" polygons?

Hmm.

A square with negative sides would none-the-less have a positive area.

Meaningless or mind-blowing..? You decide...
by elasto
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:27 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: Judea Pearl's Critism of Machine Learning
Replies: 17
Views: 5220

Re: Judea Pearl's Critism of Machine Learning

Perhaps, but I have the feeling there's more to our understanding of causality than mere correlation with a time offset. We reason about causality, using the concept of a mechanism that underlies the causal relationship. In fact, this is so important that we are prone to make errors of both types: ...
by elasto
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:25 pm UTC
Forum: Science
Topic: Word Based Consciousness
Replies: 11
Views: 2028

Re: Word Based Consciousness

Now, apart from that, a deaf and blind person is likely not to have much facility with words. Are they not conscious though? Or, consider a newborn baby. They probably have very little in the way of ideas - they are probably just a giant ball of naked emotions - sleepiness, hunger, anxiety and so o...
by elasto
Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:02 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

Low paid and part time jobs are taxed comparatively lightly under any progressive taxation scheme. Generally, low paid workers in the US pay little in tax, as you pay only 10% federal tax on your first bit of income, and you've got deductions to consider as well. Maybe it's just the UK that handles...
by elasto
Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:00 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

A large part of the assumptions regarding UBI is that it will somehow help the currently unemployed become employed. I'm not sure that this is directly supported by data. The unemployed are already being supported by safety nets, and would be under pretty much any conceivable system in a modern, ci...
by elasto
Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:20 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

Off the top of my head, there's not more money in the system it's just distributed differently, so assuming the economy equivalently reorganises it feels like prices need not rise. As in, sure, industries and the skills represented therein are not perfectly interchangeable, but someone investing cap...
by elasto
Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:44 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: The Darker Side of the News
Replies: 4191
Views: 583805

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Just because this was not an issue related to net neutrality doesn't mean net neutrality isn't an issue... Yeah but they are trying to make this about net neutrality when it isn't: "Verizon's throttling has everything to do with net neutrality — it shows that the ISPs will act in their economi...
by elasto
Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:42 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: Trump presidency
Replies: 7992
Views: 619419

Re: Trump presidency

Nah. Realpolitik always has and always will rule the day. We are friends with Saudi Arabia because we want their oil. We are friends with China because we want their goods. We condemn North Korea because they have nothing we want. May probably despises Trump as a person, but sucks up to him publicly...
by elasto
Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:26 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

But it's not obvious to me how one would have a system of gradually buying a home without committing to the full purchase. There are a couple of variants in the UK. The first version is you rent a house from the government at ~80% of market rate and then have the option to purchase at the end of yo...
by elasto
Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:06 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

The US has internships as well, particularly for med school. They are...eh. In some cases not so bad, but in some cases, I do think they can be exploitative. Folks being required to work 24 hr+ shifts during residency is probably unhealthy, and the system as a whole is probably unduly coercive. Als...
by elasto
Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:46 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

Yeah. It doesn't seem practical. A more traditional wage seems more reasonable for most things. I'm okay with say, housing or whatever being provided as part of a wage, if you want to make some such arrangement, but generally an up-front lump sum is going to be more difficult than a scheduled wage....
by elasto
Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:36 pm UTC
Forum: Mathematics
Topic: Terminology Question: Percentile vs Percentile Rank
Replies: 9
Views: 2337

Re: Terminology Question: Percentile vs Percentile Rank

To be fair, it's not obvious a-priori that 'at' and 'in' mean such different things in this context; To me they are virtually synonyms ('I'm at my house' <==> 'I'm in my house') with 'at' actually being the broader term (being 'at your house' might mean being just outside it) I feel like there shoul...
by elasto
Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:53 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

But the property taxes would be less because the government isn't putting these things in. It should be a wash. No, because currently road-building, school-building, hospital-building etc. comes out of general taxation. It makes a difference because we're considering the effect of a policy on the h...
by elasto
Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:27 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

Frequently, US developments will put in some degree of infrastructure during construction. They do the whole neighborhood at one shot, usually townhouses or the like, and put in local roads, pools, handle water, sewage and power hookups. Sure, you still need government involved to approve the const...
by elasto
Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:45 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

Infrastructure is necessary, sure. So, basically, government's complicit in locking off the supply? Yeah, that's unfortunate. Yeah, I regard it totally as a failure by the politicians. But that doesn't mean I think less government intervention would have worked out better. Personally, the idea of p...
by elasto
Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:33 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

If allowed, I'd imagine private folks would love to build additional housing if it's so profitable. Planning permission and NIMBYism are part of the issue, yes, but houses can't be built in isolation - you need to build roads, utilities, schools, hospitals - basically whole communities - which make...
by elasto
Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:12 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

What's wrong with renting housing? Is there a counter-example we can look to of a society without renting to compare? I for one wouldn't claim there's anything wrong with renting housing in principle - indeed, there are some countries like Germany where renting not owning is the norm (or, that was ...
by elasto
Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:32 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: The Darker Side of the News
Replies: 4191
Views: 583805

Re: The Darker Side of the News

There's been 3 decades of anti-American propaganda spread by Russia and others since then. Are you absolutely sure that the public would have a similar reaction to the US liberating SK as they reacted to Kuwait? America was actually quite well-viewed under Obama. Heck, he even got awarded a Nobel P...
by elasto
Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:37 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: The Darker Side of the News
Replies: 4191
Views: 583805

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Think back to Bush1's invasion of Iraq, which was in response to Iraq's attack on another sovereign country. Support was essentially world-wide. I think support would be even more universal if NK preemptively attacked SK. It would probably still be near-unanimous even if Trump provoked it in some fa...
by elasto
Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:03 am UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: The Darker Side of the News
Replies: 4191
Views: 583805

Re: The Darker Side of the News

I just checked previous post. He was clearly talking about what actions other nuclear armed countries would take within an hour of the exchange between USA and NK, seemingly suggesting they'd launch an attack on the US. Which seems a very odd idea, when they can just stay out of it and not get nuke...
by elasto
Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:28 am UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: The Darker Side of the News
Replies: 4191
Views: 583805

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Yes. What do you think would happen? They'd threaten a country that has just demonstrated itself perfectly willing to reduce another country to molten rock? Countries certainly wouldn't threaten. Attention-seeking terrorist organisations probably would though. (Yes, as low as America's reputation h...
by elasto
Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:18 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

No, it's not obvious. If the government doesn't pay for it, you either don't get it at all, or you pay for it yourself. In neither case does that mean we are wealthier. I think the theory is that the market is highly efficient, and that if the market isn't providing some service, it's because that ...
by elasto
Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:52 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

I could be wrong, but I always visualised a safety net as just like what it alludes to: something to catch the falling no matter how badly they screwed up; a line below which no citizen can sink. In terms of healthcare, it would be the UK NHS: No, it's not perfect - it has waiting lists and doesn't ...
by elasto
Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:10 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

You might get a few libertarians that believe market forced are enough to handle fraud, but I think most accept regulation as necessary for that. What else do you think regulation is necessary for to provide an efficient market, elasto? Off the top of my head, I'd say that whenever rational agents ...
by elasto
Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:49 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

My answer in the case of literal rent-seeking would be to vastly increase the supply of high quality government-owned housing. Yes, there is an issue in that, logistically, there's only so much house building that can occur in any given year, but that's testament to how badly successive governments ...
by elasto
Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:32 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

The answer, of course, is that wealth does correlate with education, ambition, drive, hard work etc., at least in part. Eliminate or otherwise drive away the wealthy and you also cull a disproportionate percentage of the educated, ambitious, driven and hard-working etc. Hence it provides a short-ter...
by elasto
Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:22 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

A problem easily fixed by not letting them take it with them when they leave. Especially if we're talking about real wealth, like land. Want to bail on the country, you forfeit the part of the country you supposedly owned; and we can just throw the proceeds from the sale of that back into the basic...
by elasto
Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:02 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

I could add more widgets to my example but won't that just obfuscate things? Ok, so let's add one new kind of widget: - WidgetXs are valued at $1 by the market - LabourerX charges $10 to turn WidgetXs into SuperWidgetXs, and takes 1 hour to do so - SuperWidgetXs are valued at $11.1 by the market The...
by elasto
Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:46 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

No. It means that their labor is more valuable. If you have used extremely valuable labor, and only turned a minor profit, then you have not used it very productively. Using expensive things does not mean that one is being more efficient. Very little value has been added. I'm sure I could go away a...
by elasto
Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:25 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

"What companies can get away with" is only a problem with private property ownership. The point of libertarian socialism is that the customers and workers have control over the business and decide for themselves what they want. And what if they decide they want spying? I have given one ex...
by elasto
Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:49 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

You misspelled it twice in a row, and I've let it slide when you've misspelled it in the past. After a while, it gets annoying. Apologies then. But chill, man! You're using a lot of emotive and aggressive language in this thread, and, for what? It's not like anything we say here will change anythin...
by elasto
Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:36 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

Could you at least make an effort to spell my name correctly? Are you just trolling? I've replied to many of your posts with the correct spelling. Obviously it was a typo. I've had many many many debates with him; he has never agreed that any negative feature of capitalism is a problem. Perhaps you...
by elasto
Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:15 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

elasto, you are rationalizing why all the spying is good [...] But yes, let's just assume the markets always do what's best no matter what, and just dismiss the negatives as necessary for the greater good. I don't think the negatives are necessary for the greater good. Did you miss the part where I...
by elasto
Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:11 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Libertarianism
Replies: 856
Views: 40720

Re: Libertarianism

Thresh, you realise this is ucim you are talking to, right? He's more critical than most of the failings of corporatism, capitalism and the current political system. Don't assume his criticism of (your approach to) libertarianism means he's not critical of the way things operate currently. It merely...

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