Search found 116 matches

by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 10:29 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

I think they would disagree. Go get some, and we'll ask. Again, you're communicating statements about the endorsed belief of the country. It's not a belief of the country, it's a belief of the people. Things like the constitution exist to protect the rights of the minority from the unjust whims of ...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 10:23 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

Basically, what you're saying is that failing to give theists special treatment is equivelent to treating them poorly. But we're not failing to give it, we're taking it away. That's not the same thing. The absence of a religious statement is not, in itself, a religious statement. Therefore, the rem...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 10:15 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

Why not "in gods we trust"? Because the vast majority of people who are served by the plural "gods" are also served by the singular "God", but the converse is not true. I think the Large christian Majority of Americans actually think of "In God we trust" as i...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 10:03 pm UTC
Forum: General
Topic: Marital Arts
Replies: 207
Views: 29391

What is cool is `push-hands' from Tai Chi. Tai Chi scares the crap out of me. I had the misfortune to face a Tai Chi practitioner in tournament once, and I couldn't touch him. I'd kick, he wasn't there. I'd punch, he wasn't there. He was there when I started. He was there when I finished. But someh...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 9:56 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Privacy
Replies: 40
Views: 7639

Re: Privacy

I'm curious about your thoughts on privacy. Privacy has always been a fiction that we maintain by social convention. I am of the opinion that we should expect privacy to disappear altogether in our lifetime. Stop lying to people. Stop hiding everything. If you have strange habits, tell people. If y...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 9:38 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

The atheists (and many of the theists, you'll note that the thread was NOT started by an atheist) are not requesting recognition for their view. They're asking that, in the field of religion, the government not recognize *anyone's* view, as it is not their place. But this request amounts to a deman...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 8:29 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

The actual ideas are more aptly stated as "it's wrong for the government to disenfranchise a religious majority or minority" and "it's wrong for the government to deliberately enfranchise a religious majority or minority". Which makes the question whether the right and privilege...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 8:08 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: Facebook
Replies: 22
Views: 4706

I don't really get the whole facebook/myspace thing. It seems to take too much effort. I signed up for MySpace and LiveJournal because I wanted to comment on some blog entries, and it was the only way I could do that. I filled out a little profile on MySpace, and then I just went "um... I alre...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 8:03 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

Your point is clear No, because if it were, you would understand that I'm not arguing "I'm right and you're wrong, so there". That would be a stupid argument. There's something hideously wrong with my communication of this idea, and I can see where it takes these screaming left turns and ...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 6:45 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

Belial wrote:You are not debating, you are being a dick.


This is a problem of communication. I am asserting a point. People do not seem to understand that point. Clearly, I have not properly explained it.

This is not deliberate assholery, but an honest error. I am trying to correct it.
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 12:02 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

Jesster wrote:I would argue that it shows the state favouring the religious denomination over the atheist denomination.


But the "religious denomination" isn't one denomination, it's several - so it doesn't violate the clause.
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 12:00 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

Jesster wrote:If you argue that someone else can be mistaken you open yourself, surely, to the idea that possibly you are mistaken?


But I'm not. You can open the idea all you want, and it doesn't change anything. So owing to the mutual exclusivity of the two claims, yours must be wrong.
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 11:31 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

My point is that the majority of people would find the phrase religious and thus violates the Seperation of Church and State. If you check the legal precedent on this matter (e.g. Lemon v. Kurtzman), you'll find that separation of church and state essentially requires that the state not show favori...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 11:27 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

Jesster wrote:Or you do not have what you think you have.


But I know what I have. So that's not possible.
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 11:20 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

But the point I am making is not the definition of God you have used now you have explained it, but the definition of God in "In God We Trust". I believe it has deliberately been left subject to interpretation - originally, so as to permit many denominations of Protestants to accept it; l...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 11:12 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

Fundamentally, you said...nothing, there. You didn't even try to counter the example. Sure I did. I said that he probably doesn't have conclusive evidence against God, only against some baggage he has inappropriately attached to God. After all, he can't have conclusive evidence that God doesn't exi...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 11:05 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

You do realise that often Lucifer is used to represent positive values such as individuality, knowledge and freedom? I don't see it that way. You can call rebellion "individuality" and perversity "freedom", but that's just spin. That, by the Old Testament he convinced humans to ...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 10:45 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

I have evidence that god does not exist, it's conclusive, there is no god If we pretend for a minute that this isn't just an illustrative maneuver to make a point, and certainly a valid one, I would respond that you cannot possibly understand what God is. People attach a lot of baggage to God. They...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 10:30 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

Are you saying that we should simply "believe" that there is a planet orbiting a non found star without evidence? Should? No. Could? Yes. Do you really think it would be good if they believed you? That depends on what they do with this belief. If they used it to pay more attention to the ...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 10:10 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

Your defenition ISN'T conventional. Yes it is. It's in Wiktionary. Therefore, there is some convention by which it is commonly used. It is an endorcement. It is not an endorsement because the government is not saying it. You are. In God we trust is a phrase connecting to religion. But it is not con...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 9:47 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

I am sorry, but saying you have evidence but cannot show us is tantamount to saying you have no evidence, it does not hold up in a court of law. If the evidence wouldn't convince you, and indeed might lead you to argue that anyone who believes such evidence is an unreliable witness, it is better no...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 8:47 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

Okay, I'm going to try the Star Trek approach to this. Imagine that somebody comes up one day and says "you know, there's a planet orbiting that star over there". And he's not an astronomer, so he's vague and doesn't really know what he's talking about, and of course nobody believes him. A...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 8:11 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

he holds his position to be irrefutable based on an opinion that he cannot support, or even elaborate on. 1. It is not an endorsement. 2. God is not necessarily a religious idea. 3. Trust is not necessarily a religious action. 4. Whether these are religious depends on the displayer and the viewer, ...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 7:54 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

So which is it? Is there evidence, or not? I have seen evidence which unfortunately I cannot show you. Are you saying here that facts themselves are subjective? Because you believe something, it is therefore a fact (for you)? No. I'm saying that the fact is the fact no matter what you believe. Ther...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 7:31 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

CDDarlock, you have yet to address my question, and I suspect it is because you do not have an answer. I'm sorry. There's a lot of posting going on in this thread, and I don't have time to respond to everything with sufficient attention. Many posts are slipping through the cracks, either because I ...
by CDarklock
Sat May 05, 2007 6:54 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

This is the first time you've heard me mention that it's wrong, because this is the first time you've met me. I speak out against this all the time, but you don't know me. Oh, okay. I still don't agree with you. I'm asking you what makes perversity and rebellion less noble goals than the one's prop...
by CDarklock
Fri May 04, 2007 11:21 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

bbctol wrote:I don't know about you, but that's definitely what I do. And everyone I've ever discussed the subject with.


You're an official representative of a religion?
by CDarklock
Fri May 04, 2007 11:20 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

I'm naturally not just talking about the license plate here. This is our national motto. It's on our money. It's everywhere. But the only change is the license plate. It's been on the money your whole life. Why is it suddenly wrong? Isn't there some value in the tradition of maintaining it? And as ...
by CDarklock
Fri May 04, 2007 11:11 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

Why are the two not the same? Because if the majority change their mind, the truth doesn't change. Because what people think of when they hear god is not the questino of a "right or wrong" perspective. I think you're confusing "right or wrong" with "true or false". Arg...
by CDarklock
Fri May 04, 2007 11:02 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

Nothing tangible. But suppose... Don't you find that to be somewhat more extreme than the availability of a single license plate design to those who want it? I don't really find your other example comparable. When I tried to articulate why that would be offensive to me, I realised that it's because...
by CDarklock
Fri May 04, 2007 10:51 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

you would not feel like your country felt you to be not as important Not if the sentiment expressed were the majority view of the population, which is the natural consequence of a democratic government. Not when it says something about me. I don't think it does. I think when you do think it does, t...
by CDarklock
Fri May 04, 2007 10:46 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

It's pretty clear he was using OED just in case you were on of those people who would leap on Wikipedia as an inaccurate source. He was responding to my own use of Wiktionary as a source, and said "let's use the OED instead ". I think his meaning was pretty clear, too. It's the Christian ...
by CDarklock
Fri May 04, 2007 10:29 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

Hammer wrote:I prefer not to supply you with this particular one because of what it means to me.


So you believe that if you don't like what I have to say, your tax dollars shouldn't supply me with the means to say it?

You can see the problem with that idea, right?
by CDarklock
Fri May 04, 2007 10:23 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

bbctol wrote:We should take messages which exclude non-religious people off our money, and out of our government.


Why does it exclude you? What do you want that you can't have because of this motto?
by CDarklock
Fri May 04, 2007 10:18 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

Because mine is that held by the vast majority of people, and the one intended by those printing it. I think Galileo might have something to say about the validity of such views. Truth doesn't follow the majority. The majority eventually follows truth, but it was still true before they followed it.
by CDarklock
Fri May 04, 2007 10:15 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

Don't insult people who clearly agree with you. I don't think you read his statement in its entirety. He wanted to use the OED instead of Wiktionary. That would remove Wikipedia/Wiktionary from the canon of accepted authority. My proposal in response was that we should allow both sources, since bot...
by CDarklock
Fri May 04, 2007 10:06 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

This is something else. The plate says "In God We Trust". The question is simple. Who is "we"? Great question! My interpretation of this is that whoever chooses to display the license plate has his own idea of what "we" means, just as he has his own idea of what "...
by CDarklock
Fri May 04, 2007 10:00 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

When there is evidence to specifically suggest that there is a God then belief in God becomes rational. Precisely. I have seen enough evidence to draw the rational conclusion that God is real. If you have not, that doesn't change the facts. Likewise, my seeing enough doesn't change the fact that yo...
by CDarklock
Fri May 04, 2007 9:35 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

CDarklock constantly says things like, "I'm tired of explaining that," Well, I am. People keep saying "it's an endorsement!" and comparing it to some celebrity saying what he does. But the government isn't saying what it does; it's giving citizens a sign to say what they do. It'...
by CDarklock
Fri May 04, 2007 9:11 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: In God we trust
Replies: 273
Views: 28604

"Everything I don't understand yet is evidence Not everything. Some things. There are plenty of things we don't understand just because we haven't looked hard enough, but it's impossible to distinguish which ones are which. That's just the nature of things. It's not a "God of the gaps&quo...

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