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by guenther
Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:31 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

As I said, I'm new to this idea, so there's certainly room for me misunderstanding. But my interpretation is that the Window is an aggregate concept and doesn't make a lot of sense at the individual level. That's because a group's window isn't simply overlaying all the individual windows, but rather...
by guenther
Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:36 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

I know this topic lost steam, but I came across another piece that I felt was relevant, so I thought I'd dump my thoughts here. I just learned about the concept of the Overton Window , which describes what ranges of topics are politically acceptable for debate. Things can be radically too far Left o...
by guenther
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:23 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

Nothing about the structure of the game has changed, but the increasing speed and quantity of communication is like adding heat to a reaction. It's still doing the same thing it was doing before (in this case, increasing partisanship), but because there are more interactions going on more quickly, ...
by guenther
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:54 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

A few comments: 1. I'm not sure how much of the game is played by politicians versus by salient voices in the party. In reality, both play a role, but can we model the game in a more clean way with just one? I don't know. In particular I'm thinking of the powers that foster the filter bubble. 2. Peo...
by guenther
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:28 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

You keep returning to this Nash equilibrium, You also talk about social media bubbles. Are these separate ideas, or are they somehow related? NE describes the strategy, and the filter bubble idea is the tactic. The NE strategy is a hardline approach that favors blocking the opposition over partial ...
by guenther
Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:54 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

Fixing that directly is certainly what I would like, but I was trying to be open to other ideas. For example, this voting system has been with us for quite a while, and we've weathered the storm of partisan politics before, so how is the case stronger today for this fix compared to times in the past...
by guenther
Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:47 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

What does proving that US politics is in a state of Nash Equilibrium do? How does that narrow topic help to understand how we got to this state, or how to break out of it? The short version is that the Nash Equilibrium is my answer to how we got into this state, and it carries along with it implica...
by guenther
Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:59 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

If I understand you correctly, you want to use game theory to explain divergent parties, instead of this standard prediction of convergent parties. In that case, you'll need to pose some strong mechanism to counteract the Hotelling effect. What would that be? I wasn't aiming to do that because I di...
by guenther
Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:24 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

I'm certainly not asking you to abandon your preference for moderation. I'm not talking about a preference for moderation. I'm talking about understanding. I encourage you to review my first post if you are unsure of what I'm trying to accomplish in this thread. I have an idea, and I'm putting it u...
by guenther
Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:32 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

I answered: People using our fear of Nazis to push their agenda is really bad, but actual Nazis are definitely worse. Now you're saying you were talking about metaphorical Nazis? That just makes me confused. I don't plan to spend any time on relitigating any of the past. I'm happy letting my words ...
by guenther
Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:02 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

To answer your question: Yes , we are in greater danger of Nazis . Because Nazis are still a thing; they still kill people every year -- and they've been having political rallies across the country at least once a month (sometimes it seems more like every week). So therefore we don't need to suppor...
by guenther
Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:13 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

1) The two parties aren't meant to explain why we can have very energetic differences; that has been around since politics began. Instead it's about trying to understand how those fissures are being shaped, how our differences are now more sorted along party lines than ever before. 2) But we really ...
by guenther
Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:28 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

I'm with you. And I like your style. :) I just had to dive in and pick in this case because I'm seeking out critiques of this idea. This is the first time I've road tested it with people I don't know, and I want to see if the wheels stay on.
by guenther
Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:14 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

Where I am more optimistic is the voter base is not as extreme and hardball as party leadership is. This makes me hopeful, too. I believe there is a middle waiting for a voice. But I think the problem comes up when we view the problem through the political lens, and guess what's playing on the news...
by guenther
Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:58 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

My objection is to your bothsiderism and the idea this is just a natural course. One side literally feels like they win whenever government fails, and has completely rejected the idea of working with the other. If we're talking about who the sides are and why they do what they do, we're not going t...
by guenther
Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:56 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

I'm open to ponder the tactics, but only why they work , not why they are employed . Clearly if they can't hit fast-balls keep throwing fast-balls. I get that people do things because it works. We're on the same page there. Unless you address what's going on with the media, you won't be able to see...
by guenther
Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:17 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

My answer is that peoples are resorting to mud sling, double talk and tribalism because it makes them feel safer in times of unrest. What about when this was true in the past? One of the articles I listed in my OP pointed out that while we have always had division, the division is now becoming bett...
by guenther
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:29 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

Well, I think... we could start by paying people to vote? Or does that ever happen? Paying people for jury duties and other public services? That would hella incentivize anyone. You have to be really careful, actually. Although studies disagree on this, some have shown that paying people small amou...
by guenther
Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:32 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

Countries certainly have the right. They could even trample on the Bill of Rights if there were a concentrated effort to rewrite the Constitution. My hesitation isn't about rights, but about wisdom. I'm not sure that the government is the wise parent when these same partisan children are at the stee...
by guenther
Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:03 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

These are great responses and exactly what I'm looking for. If my idea is to stand up, these are the sorts of things I need to be able to answer. (Mostly in response to elasto and Leovan): Are strategies stagnant when approaching NE (Nash Equilibrium) in a game? I agree that when both sides are at t...
by guenther
Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:34 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Re: Nash Equilibrium in American politics

"Under the current voting system, only two parties are possible. But under a different voting system, more than two parties would be possible. This would be better for reasons X and Y. This is related to my point, but I'm not here just to chime in with support for third parties. Rather, I am p...
by guenther
Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:27 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Nash Equilibrium in American politics
Replies: 91
Views: 8365

Nash Equilibrium in American politics

I have a theory that our two party system is approaching a Nash Equilibrium in politics. Or rather, this is my hypothesis, and I'd love to get my ideas onto firmer ground, be it by either building support or finding flaws. Maybe my understanding falls short on what the Nash Equilibrium actually is, ...
by guenther
Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:12 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform
Replies: 76
Views: 8874

Re: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform

I don't know how to solve it either, and I agree it's a hard problem even in the general case of just putting people together and letting them interact. But in this venture of reaching across a sharp divide and trying to understand who those people are over there, I think it comes with even more ris...
by guenther
Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:30 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform
Replies: 76
Views: 8874

Re: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform

The flip side to entrenchment is knowledge and experience. They're related because the depths of our understanding grows, and we don't just lurch from thing to thing when we see something shiny and compelling. There's always a balance between obstinate and wise, but I would say there's something los...
by guenther
Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:43 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform
Replies: 76
Views: 8874

Re: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform

An Equitable Social Platform is doomed thanks to those righteous, myopic, naïve bastards on the other side. Is "Equitable Social Platform" a specific thing? Or is this just describing a place where people are treated equally? I'm not sure how tongue-in-cheek your post is, but pointing out...
by guenther
Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:29 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform
Replies: 76
Views: 8874

Re: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform

So, now we just have to convince people to take the time to read stories outside their ideological bubbles. That's easy, right?... :lol: I'd like to see it along side exercising or eating healthy. Those aren't easy, but we all know it's good, and there's a tradition of trying again every year. Unfo...
by guenther
Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:03 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform
Replies: 76
Views: 8874

Re: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform

Earlier this year NPR's Planet Money did an interesting story/podcast about changing one's views from a economics angle, and the Change My View Reddit was part of their discussion. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/06/23/534132561/episode-780-on-second-thought I actually had heard that episod...
by guenther
Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:19 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform
Replies: 76
Views: 8874

Re: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform

I'm saying you don't even *touch* our areas of disagreement. You might enjoy interacting with people you disagree with, but most of us don't. We want to hear what we already "know" to be true. We want to reject other points of view. The target audience for this is exactly the people that ...
by guenther
Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:38 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform
Replies: 76
Views: 8874

Re: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform

Which I guess makes the problem "how do we do that, but keep people from being hypocrites about it?" Build a tribe who's against tribalism and hypocrisy? Who shun anyone who acts tribal or hypocritical? It's an interesting idea. :) But I'm thinking that cornering people and telling them h...
by guenther
Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:02 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform
Replies: 76
Views: 8874

Re: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform

One thing I think really keeps people from even attempting to build bridges of understanding is tribal peer pressure. I agree, and I think we see the extreme version on college campuses, where even allowing the other side to speak is an act of violence that must be met with violence. And a similar ...
by guenther
Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:35 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform
Replies: 76
Views: 8874

Re: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform

Took a quick glance through the Ricochet Network podcasts. It does seem pretty diverse, anyway! I'll give this a try on my walk home tonight. Thanks! Just today I was just listening to an episode of The Remnant Podcast and heard the host mention in passing how the Left would build their platform ou...
by guenther
Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:51 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform
Replies: 76
Views: 8874

Re: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform

An hour is a good while. Particularly in the social media arena. I can't think of any successful platform that has focused on such lengthy forms of messaging, though opposite examples(twitter, for instance), which focus on extremely short messages, are quite popular. I just don't think many people ...
by guenther
Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:07 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform
Replies: 76
Views: 8874

Re: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform

If you want to learn, you need to listen. A forum isn't a place where people listen, it's a place where people speak. Yeah, some listening occurs, but oftentimes it's just enough listening so that the participant can fire off a response. So, perhaps the "Crossing Divides" platform should ...
by guenther
Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:44 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform
Replies: 76
Views: 8874

Re: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform

I had thought that you were looking to create a way for people to organically happen across well-reasoned and civil representation of different points of view, which sounds like the same thing as fostering good discussions -- not so much for the sake of you being able to go and discuss yourself, bu...
by guenther
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:47 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform
Replies: 76
Views: 8874

Re: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform

No, it's stating the problem. Those who rail against the left or right are not doing it to generate reasoned discussion. The point isn't whether they are trying to generate reasoned discussion in that moment, but whether they can be moved in a direction to have that aim. I doubt Sean Hannity can be...
by guenther
Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:22 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform
Replies: 76
Views: 8874

Re: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform

In the direction of modifying facebook algorithms: it might be as simple as populating your news feed based on what's getting engagement among people with different views and interests than you, as opposed to what's getting engagement among people with similar views and interests. Then the only eff...
by guenther
Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:16 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform
Replies: 76
Views: 8874

Re: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform

The hard part is getting people to want to get out of their filter bubble. Because they already know they are right. It's about listening, not speaking. If you listen to the other side, and don't speak, you will be able to gather the nuance, because the polarization comes about from a defensive pos...
by guenther
Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:03 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform
Replies: 76
Views: 8874

Re: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform

All of that sounds interesting, but it's biting off more than I know how to chew. It really gets into the area of facilitating reasoned, civil, constructive debate. I would love to see that happen and would even help if I knew how. But for this I was shooting for a smaller scope of just helping peop...
by guenther
Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:39 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform
Replies: 76
Views: 8874

Re: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform

I am definitely more interested in discussing the core fundamentals before figuring out how to move this from thought experiment to a practical venture. That sounds like an important things to discuss, and I certainly would have a lot to learn, but first I want to figure out if the essence of this t...
by guenther
Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:34 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Crossing Divides - A Social Platform
Replies: 76
Views: 8874

Crossing Divides - A Social Platform

I want to walk through a thought experiment on designing a social platform with the purpose of getting people to break out of their filter bubbles and engage across sharp divides. My motivation comes from when I tried to do just that and found it difficult. It was easy to pop into the other side's e...

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